General Discussions

[townsendcalling]

Should kids who are currently at uni, but have solid casual jobs, be asked to pay board?? (They already  pay their own rego, car insurance, phones and CFC membership)

[Baggers]

Again, another huge issue which isn't an either/or situation to my way of thinking.

Until ice came along most violent crimes were committed by folks with a mental illness or drunk (or both)... and alcohol is a legal drug.

Let’s take a squiz at the horrendous cost to the community of drunk people/alcohol... domestic violence, car/truck accidents, beating up ambos/ staff in hospitals and so on. Alcohol remains one of the worst drugs re causes of violence and crime... then there are the physical illnesses caused by alcohol - another cost to the community.

Ice is in a category of its own. An angry person on ice is every bit as bad as an angry drunk – abuse and violence. But ice also tends to alter the actual brain chemistry of those pre disposed to mental health issues. And there aint no going back once this chemistry is altered… only prescription medication which tends to so subdue the individual as to make them indistinguishable from a cabbage – better that than irrational/angry/violent, some would say.

Since time immemorial, humans have sought out mind-altering substances, but generally for a sense of peace or fun or spiritual inspiration/connection.

Just to throw a wrench into the argument… much meaningful research into some illicit drugs (LSD, magic mushies, peyote, hooch and so on) shows that these mind-altering substances can be effectively used in psychiatry and psychology to actually help some folks with a mental illness. Holy cr@p! Yep, and it is gaining momentum but unlike the 60s, its use is being strictly controlled & monitored (and is still in the experimental stage it should be noted). Leary and co. were onto something.

And here’s another mind-bender – low level consumers of alcohol out-live non-drinkers. Yep, and it aint the grape or whatever, its actually the alcohol. Glass of grape, or coupla beers or G & T etc with dinner – good for you. But as soon as we go beyond the one or two per day, the wellness curve dips… badly!

As for the justice aspect, personally, although I favour decriminalizing illicit drugs, provided monitoring and registration is thorough, I’m an absolutist re NOT being able to use ‘drunk or outa my mind’ as any excuse or justification for a crime. So many mind-altering substances (grog included) only remove inhibition, so any angry person is a powder keg re abuse and violence against society once effected by their poison of choice. For me, convictions against those committing a crime of violence against another human/animal, whether p1ssed/high or not, should get more jail time.

I totally understand the feelings of anger toward those who harm others when drunk or high. I’m not immune from those feelings and have had family members keep things from me because they knew what I would do to the perpetrator of the violence against my loved one.

[LP]

Should kids who are currently at uni, but have solid casual jobs, be asked to pay board?? (They already  pay their own rego, car insurance, phones and CFC membership)

[member=264]townsendcalling[/member]‍

Yes, even if eventually it has to be given back when they might be struggling.

I do not see this as being anything to do with wealth, it's about doing what is right.

[PaulP]

In my very limited reading on this topic, I gather that in pre modern cultures, psychedelics were used quite commonly, but always in a ritualistic context, under supervision, and were taken principally in order to experience the divine. They were, as I understand it, a kind of equalizer, to convey the correct (in my view) notion that we are strongly connected with the things around us, and we need to respect that. I'm quite sure they also understood this was a good way of taking care of those individuals who feel a strong urge to liberate themselves from everyday constraints and societal norms, and to do it in a managed, sensible way. Such experiences are not only induced by drugs - sweat lodges and vision quests, even extended fasting can induce an altered state of consciousness.

I'm not suggesting that such cultures are perfect, but I think frankly the West could learn a lot from our ancestors.

[LP]

In my very limited reading on this topic, I gather that in pre modern cultures, psychedelics were used quite commonly, but always in a ritualistic context, under supervision, and were taken principally in order to experience the divine. They were, as I understand it, a kind of equalizer, to convey the correct (in my view) notion that we are strongly connected with the things around us, and we need to respect that. I'm quite sure they also understood this was a good way of taking care of those individuals who feel a strong urge to liberate themselves from everyday constraints and societal norms, and to do it in a managed, sensible way. Such experiences are not only induced by drugs - sweat lodges and vision quests, even extended fasting can induce an altered state of consciousness.

I'm not suggesting that such cultures are perfect, but I think frankly the West could learn a lot from our ancestors.

I've heard the term psychedelic is a bit wrong, it's really the domain of LSD and Psilocybin. The cultural substances were more psychotropic than hallucinogen, substances like Peyote or Datura. I'm not sure the fine details.

There was a nice podcast about this a few weeks back;
http://bigpicturescience.org/episodes/sk...ith-a-view

The potential for treatment of depression with some of these native medicines is being seriously investigated.

[Baggers]

I've heard the term psychedelic is a bit wrong, it's really the domain of LSD and Psilocybin. The cultural substances were more psychotropic than hallucinogen, substances like Peyote or Datura. I'm not sure the fine details.

I just stick to 'mind-altering' substances. Too many grey areas and crossovers.

[Baggers]

The potential for treatment of depression with some of these native medicines is being seriously investigated.

I know folks here in Oz, who are using it to help with a number of mental illnesses with encouraging results - but the supervision is strict and dosages closely monitored, and there are plenty of main stream medical folks who are dead against it. A dear Yank buddy of mine, many moons ago, was having all kinds of strife with his teenage son... so off they went (from Virginia) and had a w/e of peyote on the west coast somewhere, with the appropriate supervision. He reckons it was the most bonding experience of their lives... about 15 years on and still going strong and not needing and repeat 'sessions!' But for every success story you're bound to find folks not getting the correct supervision and having an awful, even dangerous experience.

[Gointocarlton]

Should kids who are currently at uni, but have solid casual jobs, be asked to pay board?? (They already  pay their own rego, car insurance, phones and CFC membership)

Im of Italian heritage, so we (in general) don't pay board. Ive put 2 girls through uni and they haven't paid me a cent. They have always had part time jobs during uni and they saved as much of it as they could. To my way of thinking, it was my way of helping them out (ie putting a roof over their heads and feeding them free of charge). My eldest has built a house and has moved in with her partner so they are off and running. My youngest has just completed uni so once she is working FT for a couple of years, she may do the same, until then, she lives with me free of charge.  I gave my eldest a "kick start payment gift" when she bought the land, Ill do the same with Junior when she's ready. I toyed with the idea of making them pay me board with the intention of giving it all back to them when they moved out, but I found they were hard workers and good savers so there wasn't a need. Thats how I was brought up and my take on it anyway.

[Gointocarlton]

What a farken disgrace this is. This piece of subhuman filth wants to play the racial disadvantage card, it makes me sick to the core. They should just put a bullet between his eyes. Piece of garbage I hope you rot in hell.

From the HS:
The “Indigenous disadvantage” of killer Codey Herrmann will form the centre of defence submissions as they fight the state’s top prosecutor’s bid to lock him up for longer.

Director of Public Prosecutions Kerri Judd QC argues the 36-year sentence handed down to Aiia Maasarwe’s murderer was “manifestly inadequate”.

A five-judge bench will hear the appeal in March.

Court of Appeal president Chris Maxwell said the court would need more information regarding mitigating factors and moral culpability to understand Herrmann’s “appalling” crime.

[capcom]

From the start to the finish
You live by the sword
But you're over your limit
Come and get your reward