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(03-12-2021, 02:43 AM)flyboy77 link Wrote:"Consensus" is not science.
Pick a hole in the argument if you can. That's fine by me.
Running with the my expert is better than your expert line is facile. In the extreme.
And there are a lot more than one or two scientists, and very eminent ones at that, with major questions.....they just don't get the air time that shills like Fauci get....
It’s more a matter of running with my thousands of experts rather than your one or two. Your bloke could be right, but the odds of that are worse than the odds of winning Tattslotto.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?” Oddball
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(03-12-2021, 02:54 AM)DJC link Wrote:It’s more a matter of running with my thousands of experts rather than your one or two. Your bloke could be right, but the odds of that are worse than the odds of winning Tattslotto.
Gees David, that's your best?
Here's the GBD.... but you'd rather back in Fauci and the likes of Soyboy Sutton? Terrific.
https://gbdeclaration.org/
A few of the original signatories. A few lightweights right?
Dr. Martin Kulldorff, professor of medicine at Harvard University, a biostatistician, and epidemiologist with expertise in detecting and monitoring infectious disease outbreaks and vaccine safety evaluations.
Dr. Sunetra Gupta, professor at Oxford University, an epidemiologist with expertise in immunology, vaccine development, and mathematical modeling of infectious diseases.
Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, professor at Stanford University Medical School, a physician, epidemiologist, health economist, and public health policy expert focusing on infectious diseases and vulnerable populations.
Dr. Alexander Walker, principal at World Health Information Science Consultants, former Chair of Epidemiology, Harvard TH Chan School of Public Health, USA
Dr. Andrius Kavaliunas, epidemiologist and assistant professor at Karolinska Institute, Sweden
Dr. Angus Dalgleish, oncologist, infectious disease expert and professor, St. George’s Hospital Medical School, University of London, England
Dr. Anthony J Brookes, professor of genetics, University of Leicester, England
Dr. Annie Janvier, professor of pediatrics and clinical ethics, Université de Montréal and Sainte-Justine University Medical Centre, Canada
Dr. Ariel Munitz, professor of clinical microbiology and immunology, Tel Aviv University, Israel
Dr. Boris Kotchoubey, Institute for Medical Psychology, University of Tübingen, Germany
Dr. Cody Meissner, professor of pediatrics, expert on vaccine development, efficacy, and safety. Tufts University School of Medicine, USA
Dr. David Katz, physician and president, True Health Initiative, and founder of the Yale University Prevention Research Center, USA
Dr. David Livermore, microbiologist, infectious disease epidemiologist and professor, University of East Anglia, England
Dr. Eitan Friedman, professor of medicine, Tel-Aviv University, Israel
Dr. Ellen Townsend, professor of psychology, head of the Self-Harm Research Group, University of Nottingham, England
Dr. Eyal Shahar, physician, epidemiologist and professor (emeritus) of public health, University of Arizona, USA
Dr. Florian Limbourg, physician and hypertension researcher, professor at Hannover Medical School, Germany
Dr. Gabriela Gomes, mathematician studying infectious disease epidemiology, professor, University of Strathclyde, Scotland
Dr. Gerhard Krönke, physician and professor of translational immunology, University of Erlangen-Nuremberg, Germany
Dr. Gesine Weckmann, professor of health education and prevention, Europäische Fachhochschule, Rostock, Germany
Dr. Günter Kampf, associate professor, Institute for Hygiene and Environmental Medicine, Greifswald University, Germany
Dr. Helen Colhoun, professor of medical informatics and epidemiology, and public health physician, University of Edinburgh, Scotland
Dr. Jonas Ludvigsson, pediatrician, epidemiologist and professor at Karolinska Institute and senior physician at Örebro University Hospital, Sweden
Dr. Karol Sikora, physician, oncologist, and professor of medicine at the University of Buckingham, England
Dr. Laura Lazzeroni, professor of psychiatry and behavioral sciences and of biomedical data science, Stanford University Medical School, USA
Dr. Lisa White, professor of modelling and epidemiology, Oxford University, England
Dr. Mario Recker, malaria researcher and associate professor, University of Exeter, England
Dr. Matthew Ratcliffe, professor of philosophy, specializing in philosophy of mental health, University of York, England
Dr. Matthew Strauss, critical care physician and assistant professor of medicine, Queen’s University, Canada
Dr. Michael Jackson, research fellow, School of Biological Sciences, University of Canterbury, New Zealand
Dr. Michael Levitt, biophysicist and professor of structural biology, Stanford University, USA.
Recipient of the 2013 Nobel Prize in Chemistry.
Dr. Mike Hulme, professor of human geography, University of Cambridge, England
Dr. Motti Gerlic, professor of clinical microbiology and immunology, Tel Aviv University, Israel
Dr. Partha P. Majumder, professor and founder of the National Institute of Biomedical Genomics, Kalyani, India
Dr. Paul McKeigue, physician, disease modeler and professor of epidemiology and public health, University of Edinburgh, Scotland
Dr. Rajiv Bhatia, physician, epidemiologist and public policy expert at the Veterans Administration, USA
Dr. Rodney Sturdivant, infectious disease scientist and associate professor of biostatistics, Baylor University, USA
Dr. Salmaan Keshavjee, professor of Global Health and Social Medicine at Harvard Medical School, USA
Dr. Simon Thornley, epidemiologist and biostatistician, University of Auckland, New Zealand
Dr. Simon Wood, biostatistician and professor, University of Edinburgh, Scotland
Dr. Stephen Bremner,professor of medical statistics, University of Sussex, England
Dr. Sylvia Fogel, autism provider and psychiatrist at Massachusetts General Hospital and instructor at Harvard Medical School, USA
Tom Nicholson, Associate in Research, Duke Center for International Development, Sanford School of Public Policy, Duke University, USA
Dr. Udi Qimron, professor of clinical microbiology and immunology, Tel Aviv University, Israel
Dr. Ulrike Kämmerer, professor and expert in virology, immunology and cell biology, University of Würzburg, Germany
Dr. Uri Gavish, biomedical consultant, Israel
Dr. Yaz Gulnur Muradoglu, professor of finance, director of the Behavioural Finance Working Group, Queen Mary University of London, England
Finals, then 4 in a row!
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03-12-2021, 03:13 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2021, 03:20 AM by LP.)
(03-12-2021, 02:50 AM)flyboy77 date Wrote:Sweden did not get "severely burnt'. You're making up stuff on the fly now. Sweden are not suspending the AstraZeneca vaccine, they publicly stated the benefit far outweighs the risk.
You've tried to build a bridge to lump Sweden in with Norway and Denmark, who in context are the subjects of this discussion, but the bridge collapsed the rest of your case is lost!
Contextus for us hominems! 
"Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck ....... Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck"
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(03-12-2021, 03:10 AM)flyboy77 date Wrote:Gees David, that's your best? I think he had you easily covered.
PS; Nice little list, full of philosophy.
"Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck ....... Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck"
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03-12-2021, 06:19 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2021, 06:30 AM by DJC.)
(03-12-2021, 03:10 AM)flyboy77 link Wrote:Gees David, that's your best?
Here's the GBD.... but you'd rather back in Fauci and the likes of Soyboy Sutton? Terrific.
https://gbdeclaration.org/
A few of the original signatories. A few lightweights right?
Dr. Martin Kulldorff, professor of medicine at Harvard University, a biostatistician, and epidemiologist with expertise in detecting and monitoring infectious disease outbreaks and vaccine safety evaluations.
Dr. Sunetra Gupta, professor at Oxford University, an epidemiologist with expertise in immunology, vaccine development, and mathematical modeling of infectious diseases.
Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, professor at Stanford University Medical School, a physician, epidemiologist, health economist, and public health policy expert focusing on infectious diseases and vulnerable populations.
Dr. Alexander Walker, principal at World Health Information Science Consultants, former Chair of Epidemiology, Harvard TH Chan School of Public Health, USA
Dr. Andrius Kavaliunas, epidemiologist and assistant professor at Karolinska Institute, Sweden
Dr. Angus Dalgleish, oncologist, infectious disease expert and professor, St. George’s Hospital Medical School, University of London, England
Dr. Anthony J Brookes, professor of genetics, University of Leicester, England
Dr. Annie Janvier, professor of pediatrics and clinical ethics, Université de Montréal and Sainte-Justine University Medical Centre, Canada
Dr. Ariel Munitz, professor of clinical microbiology and immunology, Tel Aviv University, Israel
Dr. Boris Kotchoubey, Institute for Medical Psychology, University of Tübingen, Germany
Dr. Cody Meissner, professor of pediatrics, expert on vaccine development, efficacy, and safety. Tufts University School of Medicine, USA
Dr. David Katz, physician and president, True Health Initiative, and founder of the Yale University Prevention Research Center, USA
Dr. David Livermore, microbiologist, infectious disease epidemiologist and professor, University of East Anglia, England
Dr. Eitan Friedman, professor of medicine, Tel-Aviv University, Israel
Dr. Ellen Townsend, professor of psychology, head of the Self-Harm Research Group, University of Nottingham, England
Dr. Eyal Shahar, physician, epidemiologist and professor (emeritus) of public health, University of Arizona, USA
Dr. Florian Limbourg, physician and hypertension researcher, professor at Hannover Medical School, Germany
Dr. Gabriela Gomes, mathematician studying infectious disease epidemiology, professor, University of Strathclyde, Scotland
Dr. Gerhard Krönke, physician and professor of translational immunology, University of Erlangen-Nuremberg, Germany
Dr. Gesine Weckmann, professor of health education and prevention, Europäische Fachhochschule, Rostock, Germany
Dr. Günter Kampf, associate professor, Institute for Hygiene and Environmental Medicine, Greifswald University, Germany
Dr. Helen Colhoun, professor of medical informatics and epidemiology, and public health physician, University of Edinburgh, Scotland
Dr. Jonas Ludvigsson, pediatrician, epidemiologist and professor at Karolinska Institute and senior physician at Örebro University Hospital, Sweden
Dr. Karol Sikora, physician, oncologist, and professor of medicine at the University of Buckingham, England
Dr. Laura Lazzeroni, professor of psychiatry and behavioral sciences and of biomedical data science, Stanford University Medical School, USA
Dr. Lisa White, professor of modelling and epidemiology, Oxford University, England
Dr. Mario Recker, malaria researcher and associate professor, University of Exeter, England
Dr. Matthew Ratcliffe, professor of philosophy, specializing in philosophy of mental health, University of York, England
Dr. Matthew Strauss, critical care physician and assistant professor of medicine, Queen’s University, Canada
Dr. Michael Jackson, research fellow, School of Biological Sciences, University of Canterbury, New Zealand
Dr. Michael Levitt, biophysicist and professor of structural biology, Stanford University, USA.
Recipient of the 2013 Nobel Prize in Chemistry.
Dr. Mike Hulme, professor of human geography, University of Cambridge, England
Dr. Motti Gerlic, professor of clinical microbiology and immunology, Tel Aviv University, Israel
Dr. Partha P. Majumder, professor and founder of the National Institute of Biomedical Genomics, Kalyani, India
Dr. Paul McKeigue, physician, disease modeler and professor of epidemiology and public health, University of Edinburgh, Scotland
Dr. Rajiv Bhatia, physician, epidemiologist and public policy expert at the Veterans Administration, USA
Dr. Rodney Sturdivant, infectious disease scientist and associate professor of biostatistics, Baylor University, USA
Dr. Salmaan Keshavjee, professor of Global Health and Social Medicine at Harvard Medical School, USA
Dr. Simon Thornley, epidemiologist and biostatistician, University of Auckland, New Zealand
Dr. Simon Wood, biostatistician and professor, University of Edinburgh, Scotland
Dr. Stephen Bremner,professor of medical statistics, University of Sussex, England
Dr. Sylvia Fogel, autism provider and psychiatrist at Massachusetts General Hospital and instructor at Harvard Medical School, USA
Tom Nicholson, Associate in Research, Duke Center for International Development, Sanford School of Public Policy, Duke University, USA
Dr. Udi Qimron, professor of clinical microbiology and immunology, Tel Aviv University, Israel
Dr. Ulrike Kämmerer, professor and expert in virology, immunology and cell biology, University of Würzburg, Germany
Dr. Uri Gavish, biomedical consultant, Israel
Dr. Yaz Gulnur Muradoglu, professor of finance, director of the Behavioural Finance Working Group, Queen Mary University of London, England
The thing is Fly that some scientists, researchers, medicos, etc are more invested in economic and political outcomes than in health outcomes. Sweden's Anders Tegnall is a prime example but he now admits that his approach was wrong, as do the Swedish King and PM. Others have religious and/or philosophical beliefs that put them at odds with the results of rigorous scientific research. What you end up with are opinions and/or declarations that are based on beliefs, not science.
Of course, I can trump your list with one name, Nobel Laureate Peter Doherty. You should read the Doherty Institute newsletters for informed explanations of the efficacy of the COVID-19 measures.
https://www.doherty.edu.au/
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?” Oddball
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(03-11-2021, 02:12 AM)kruddler link Wrote:Forgive me because I cannot recall the exact numbers, but someone did the math on how many vaccinations we had to do per day to get whatever target was named for pater on the year.
We were doing less than 20% of the daily target needed to achieve the goals. No hope of achieving targets.
To get your head around what that means, after 5 days of vaccinations, we are 4 days behind. Repeat. Repeat. How do catch up from that??
As if almost on queue, the government have said they will not reach their target of vaccinating everyone (twice) by their due date (October).
Instead they hope to have everyone vaccinated once in that time.
Essentially cutting their target in half.
At the current pace, they would need to do that again to have a hope of making it, but likely fall just short.
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https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-12/d...e/13240984
I think we should suspend use of the Astrazeneca vaccine until more testing is done, South Africa suspended it as well as these other countries mentioned and I'd like to see the results of the more testing these countries are doing before we give it out on mass. If you are on blood thinners or are a clot candidate you should not be given this vaccine and I think anyone over 50 needs to be given any vaccine by their own doctor who has their medical history at hand. Relying on Govt cheapie grad doctors in clinics dangerous IMO and we dont need to wildly rush into mass vaccinations without analyzing whats happening elsewhere in the world first. We are fortunate we can learn from others mistakes and need to take advantage of being later starters in the vaccination process.
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(03-12-2021, 07:59 AM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-12/d...e/13240984
I think we should suspend use of the Astrazeneca vaccine until more testing is done, South Africa suspended it as well as these other countries mentioned and I'd like to see the results of the more testing these countries are doing before we give it out on mass. If you are on blood thinners or are a clot candidate you should not be given this vaccine and I think anyone over 50 needs to be given any vaccine by their own doctor who has their medical history at hand. Relying on Govt cheapie grad doctors in clinics dangerous IMO and we dont need to wildly rush into mass vaccinations without analyzing whats happening elsewhere in the world first. We are fortunate we can learn from others mistakes and need to take advantage of being later starters in the vaccination process. EB I would have thought if you're on anticoagulants, you should safe from clots.
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03-12-2021, 08:18 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2021, 08:27 AM by ElwoodBlues1.)
(03-12-2021, 08:07 AM)Gointocarlton link Wrote:EB I would have thought if you're on anticoagulants, you should safe from clots. GTC...They dont reduce the effects to zero and if you are on the heavy duty variety like the old rat poison (warfarin) you find you are still able to get clots via interaction with other drugs, food and other underlying conditions.
Like I said only your own GP knows what you are on and as we know with a lot of older folk they take a cocktail of several drugs
which interact differently with each other. My mother in law took warferin, it was a nightmare to manage given her other conditions, dosage changed every week. You dont need a vaccine with possible clot effects adding to that, get one that is proven not to be a potential trigger ie maybe wait for the Novavax..
Are we actually checking people and working out what is the best vaccine to suit them or just randomly jabbing them with whats available?
Would you entertain a long haul flight after a couple of jabs of astrazeneca, you might not even know you are a potential clot candidate...?
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(03-12-2021, 08:18 AM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:GTC...They dont reduce the effects to zero and if you are on the heavy duty variety like the old rat poison (warfarin) you find you are still able to get clots via interaction with other drugs, food and other underlying conditions.
Like I said only your own GP knows what you are on and as we know with a lot of older folk they take a cocktail of several drugs
which interact differently with each other. My mother in law took warferin, it was a nightmare to manage given her other conditions, dosage changed every week. You dont need a vaccine with possible clot effects adding to that, get one that is proven not to be a potential trigger ie maybe wait for the Novavax..
Are we actually checking people and working out what is the best vaccine to suit them or just randomly jabbing them with whats available?
Would you entertain a long haul flight after a couple of jabs of astrazeneca, you might not even know you are a potential clot candidate...? Funny you mention not knowing about being a clot candidate. 2 months ago I ended up in hospital with severe kidney stone pain and whilst scanning for the stone, they found an "old" clot in the portal vein of my liver. So Ive been on a course of Eliquis (apixaban) until it clears. Ive also had tests to see if its genetic or from an old op. I might give the Astrazeneca jab a wide birth even though they reckon there isn't a conclusive link between the clot and the jab..
2017-16th
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2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
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