2018 Rd 15: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Brisbane

[Gointocarlton]

Regardless of everything else, which of our players is flying the flag?

To me Daisy looks beaten down and just about finished and he was one of our best yesterday. What does that say about the rest of them?

Samo had pure joy on his face when he kicked that early goal and tried his guts out all day but isn’t impacting enough.

Weiters looks severely depressed to me. What is going on there?

Fish is tireless in his efforts.

Is it merely the mid aged players bit providing enough? And making really stupid mistakes, that just then demoralises the side? So hard to know.

I think the problem with Weiters and SPS is that they are both slow as treacle. I think they are both struggling with the speed at which the game is played and the speed of other players from other clubs. They both get caught alot, they need to develop some trick to get them out of trouble. We have far too many slow coaches.

[ElwoodBlues1]

I think the problem with Weiters and SPS is that they are both slow as treacle. I think they are both struggling with the speed at which the game is played and the speed of other players from other clubs. They both get caught alot, they need to develop some trick to get them out of trouble. We have far too many slow coaches.

Weitering is slow and mentally shot........he looks like a soldier suffering shell shock and when the big guns fire off he just wants to stay in the trench and pray for survival....
Jason Dunstall commented on Weitering and he cant work out whats gone wrong either...
SPS just cant work hard enough for 100 minutes, talent is there but the desire is inconsistent...

[LoveNavy]

I think the problem with Weiters and SPS is that they are both slow as treacle. I think they are both struggling with the speed at which the game is played and the speed of other players from other clubs. They both get caught alot, they need to develop some trick to get them out of trouble. We have far too many slow coaches.

Freudian slip  :

[ElwoodBlues1]

Malthouse did that and people accused him of playing favourites.

Can't have it both ways.

Daisy was high profile, banged up, Mick's love child and his money was seen as being the Eddie money.....bit different..more controversial...
I'm talking more players like Sicily who was still a raw unloved talent, Hartung, OBrien etc...moneyball types whose future with the Hawks was less certain....and maybe one fading star like Lewis as I said...

[capcom]

Malthouse did that and people accused him of playing favourites.

Can't have it both ways.

He definitely wanted to follow his coach as well and McGuire knew it. 

[PaulP]

I don't disagree with anything you say there.
I'm not calling for anyone to be sacked right now. I just am starting to doubt what is going on.
We have turned over 40 odd players, and have a brand new coach who is supposedly a master at teaching the kids.
I don't have an issue with the players we have drafted, some are not up to it, but that's not something you generally know when you get them in the place, or at least hopefully not.
We have a coach who is saying all of the right things, and as far as I am concerned, teaching the boys defence first was a great move. I was all on board with that, even when plenty have been calling for a more attacking style. I think if your defence is right, you are 75% of the way there.
What I can't cop is the insipid performances. The lack of heart. The lack of effort. The lack of pride. The lack of playing like you want to be a professional player. There are a few guys in the side who play like that, unfortunately they are for the most part the ones with less than the required skill level, or the blokes coming to the end of their career.
My response was to your statement about wanting to see how Bolton goes with more players available. If yesterday's effort was repeated, it wouldn't matter which 18 guys were out there, they'd have still stunk it up.
Effort. That's what I want. Not just against this side or that, but every week.
You want to know why McKay isn't getting a run, it's because he is lazy, and doesn't give required effort. He has obviously been told to improve that part of his game, and he hasn't. The thing that mystifies me about McKay is why plenty of other guys aren't in the same position.
You want to know why Polson, SOJ and O'Shea keep getting a run? Because they try their guts out.

I think from the outside, what supporters see as lack of effort can be many things - genuine laziness on the players part, fatigue, bad attitude. Sometimes you may find players not running, not chasing - is this because of confusion about who does what, is it trying to not make a mistake by running to the wrong spot, is it sticking to the game plan which is based on zones, so if you abandon your part of the zone, you're in strife ? Some times there may be some behind the scenes personal things that we don't know about that throws things off. I don't know, I'm just thinking aloud, and maybe I'm talking through my ar$e.

We've seen very good effort at times this season. Don't forget last night, we had Simmo as a late out, Marchy and Philips injured, Rowe has to go forward, so the backline (with no Doc, Rowe, Marchy, Plowman, Simmo, ACOS etc.) was a shemozzle. Also we were down on rotations from very early on etc.

If you believe in simplistic dualities, then we either have talented types who don't put in 4 q efforts or gut busters who have little talent and awful skills. 

[RiverRat]

I for one will not, for the first time in decades, be buying my membership before May/June next year... not unless something real, something concrete happens. No more fluff, no more excuses, no more scripted responses from the media dept., no more justifications, rationalisations or corporate cliches'/spin from Juddy and co.

This year I reduced my membership to home games only and will need to see more competitiveness before increasing my commitment.

The biggest problem (apart from injuries) is that we have been trying to play a team zone defence but some of the team are unable or unwilling to work hard enough to keep the net intact.

Speed kills; lack of speed is more devastating; but unwillingness to use what speed you have is unforgivable. 

[Gointocarlton]

This year I reduced my membership to home games only and will need to see more competitiveness before increasing my commitment.

The biggest problem (apart from injuries) is that we have been trying to play a team zone defence but some of the team are unable or unwilling to work hard enough to keep the net intact.

Speed kills; lack of speed is more devastating; but unwillingness to use what speed you have is unforgivable.

Well said.

[JonHenry]

I'll give you one to explain...." we will be defined by pressure"...............

Agree that pressure from last year is non existent.
I wonder if it is Teague trying to implement a different game style with a team that doesn’t have the tools.
Our list has been smashed by injury so it seems odd to open up our game plan

[PaulP]

Agree that pressure from last year is non existent.
I wonder if it is Teague trying to implement a different game style with a team that doesn’t have the tools.
Our list has been smashed by injury so it seems odd to open up our game plan

Fair points IMO.