2018 Rd 7: Pre Game Paranoia: Carlton vs Adelaide

[kruddler]

Kreuzer is injured again no doubt about that, when fit he is a far better ruck option than Jacobs. Despite Jacobs accumulating large numbers of hit-outs occasionally nobody has ever seriously considers him for an AA spot, while some (even non-Carlton commentators) believe Kreuzer has been robbed of a spot, there is a reason for that!

The idea that Jacobs dominates Carlton is unsupported by the match reports and the stats, he's had very few good games against us, on average we have him covered. Statistically looking at Jacobs top 51 games against all opposition Carlton only features twice, at 14th and 51st. On averages against Carlton he's middle of the field, head to head Kreuzer has been better for Carlton against Adelaide than Jacobs has been for the Crows against us. That is reality, nothing subjective to opinionated about it!

That is 100% subjective and even the 'stats' you indirectly talk about doesn't actually back up your argument.

That is like saying Tony Locketts best game of AFL football were not against Carlton when he was at St. Kilda. And Luke O'Sullivans best games were against St. Kilda....so Rhino is better than Plugger. That logic makes no correlation to their base performances. Loosely summarised, Plugger averaged 5 goals a game. Rhino, 5 games a year.

There is simply so much wrong with what you right, that i'm simply going to agree to disagree.

[Lods]

There is simply so much wrong with what you right, that i'm simply going to agree to disagree.

Not getting involved in the argument, go at it guys .....but I found this funny  ;D

[LP]

That is 100% subjective and even the 'stats' you indirectly talk about doesn't actually back up your argument.

That is like saying Tony Locketts best game of AFL football were not against Carlton when he was at St. Kilda. And Luke O'Sullivans best games were against St. Kilda....so Rhino is better than Plugger. That logic makes no correlation to their base performances. Loosely summarised, Plugger averaged 5 goals a game. Rhino, 5 games a year.

There is simply so much wrong with what you right, that i'm simply going to agree to disagree.

Ignoring the Freudian slip, you are not getting out of this by reverting to your usual absurdities, you have made a rubbish statement.

Here is a Final Siren Head to Head, the relevant section shows reality about any claims of Jacobs domination against Carlton.

I suspect like many fans, your rage at losing Jacobs has coloured your perception of his performances!

[kruddler]

Not getting involved in the argument, go at it guys .....but I found this funny  ;D

lol

[kruddler]

Ignoring the Freudian slip, you are not getting out of this by reverting to your usual absurdities, you have made a rubbish statement.

Here is a Final Siren Head to Head, the relevant section shows reality about any claims of Jacobs domination against Carlton.

I suspect like many fans, your rage at losing Jacobs has coloured your perception of his performances!

I have no rage at losing Jacobs. It was a necessary at the time, and in hindsight we chose wrong.

To point out, 1 more time, how wrong you are with what you write, i will do nothing other than pointing out the fact your link shows them playing against eachother 16 times. Sauce has only played against Carlton 7 times in his career...and Kreuzer was, yep injured, for 3 of those.

I posted stats, you post gobbledy gook.

[madbluboy]

Neither Gibbs, Murphy or Kreuzer has ever really been a stand out #1 draft pick....

Good, but very seldom great i.e. match winners.

I reckon in each case - if we had our time again - different choices would be made....

Hopefully Weitering comes good!

Just seems to me that the good teams just recruit mature ruckmen who are ready to go.

[malo]

Just seems to me that the good teams just recruit mature ruckmen who are ready to go.

But how do clubs get to that point & who do they use in the meantime ? 

Hawks (before premierships) were making do with the likes of Simon Taylor, & Brett Renouf (once successful they brought in David Hale....& did very well out of him)
Cats had a long term ruck (King) who they'd had for years before they became a force (which is similar to us with Kruezer). 
Collingwood bought in Jolly from Swans when they were looking like they were a chance, before 2010 they were using Wood & Leigh Brown !
Swans, luckily had Mumford as well.....they've done well with rucks over the years, they have.....ironically, so have Melbourne somehow ????

[LP]

Just seems to me that the good teams just recruit mature ruckmen who are ready to go.

Who are the AFLs current top ruckmen, and how were they drafted?

I would think more than half the current 2018 top rated 1st rucks were Rnd 1 or 2 draft picks by the club they play for, also a good percentage of them still play for the club they were drafted for.

Of those who have moved, a couple are the case were they left because they were not better than the existing first ruck option.

Subjectively, it seems the hit rate for success on picking a ruck early in the draft is no better or worse than any other player, but I appreciate the time-frame for a return on that pick can be significant given that rucks typically peak in their late 20s. The issue of No.1 versus other early picks is more about what individual clubs need at the time, not who is necessarily the very best player, and even so it's still a coin toss if any individual pick will be a success!

[malo]

Who was the last consistent performing match winning number 1 pick from any club?
Most of the really good players come later in the draft.

The number one pick is a dangerous thing to have....it basically means you have to pick on the safe side......you just can't afford to gamble on someone else who might have a bigger upside....but is not a guaranteed 200 game player.......and this is the very reason that it is a false economy for the bottom placed sides.

You're absolutely right BluePhantom, there haven't been many elite gun players picked at #1 have there.

[blue4life]

Who was the last consistent performing match winning number 1 pick from any club?
Most of the really good players come later in the draft.

Hodge and Riewoldt probably, and maybe Patton, most of the rest have been very good players but not match winners.
If you stack them all up over the last 25 years Murphy, Gibbs and Kreuzer more than hold their own.