2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

[JonHenry]

The blooding of the young kids is all good and well, in fact it is actually perfect.

The thing is that we still have too many players getting games that have NO FUTURE at our club and to me that has to stop (and the whole rant about trading etc).

Play just kids, lose to Richmond by 65 instead of 43, both are embarrassing, but one gives more games to kids to give them a chance to prove themselves.

All of my anger about last night isn't the result or Bolton or anything, it is at our clubs inability to build a list.

I agree whole heatedly but you can't do it in a season or two, when you are coming from so far back.
You have to play some senior bodies.

The problem is, our senior guys are not physical.
Levi was pathetic in that push and shove last night.
Martin mauled him and he wanted nothing to do with it.

Levi, Kruezer, Rowe, Cripps and E Curnow must crash bodies.

None of them have elite skills so they must work hard physically.

The last thing we need is our kids learning to play soft

[mateinone]

I agree whole heatedly but you can't do it in a season or two, when you are coming from so far back.
You have to play some senior bodies.

I think that is a lie that has become a 'known truth'.
I believe you could play an entire team of under 23s and they would be able to match it. Most often the players are going one for one against their older opponents and neither Weitering or Cripps look overwhelmed by elder opponents, regardless of who is around them.

I completely dismiss the notion that you need bigger older bodies in there. I agree you won't win a flag with just younger players, but I think you get more by building a team where the culture is completely reset and those from an alternate era have no influence on where the club heads.

I would rather Curnow or McKay or Silvagni in our forward line over Casboult every single time, even though Casboult would take more contested marks. If i had 3 spots I would put all three of them in and still leave Casboult out.

Build a team of young , brash, cocky antisocial footballers unburdened by the softly approach our elder players have taken to games for years. I don't want them to be role models to these younger guys, not now, not for 1 more day/game.

[madbluboy]

Patience?

Today's children have never seen Carlton as a contender and have seen us win multiple spoons. Remember the pathetic clubs like StKilda and the Brisbane Bears when we were kids?

Well that's Carlton now. Richmond fans were laughing at us last night.

[Dominator_7]

Patience?

Today's children have never seen Carlton as a contender and have seen us win multiple spoons. Remember the pathetic clubs like StKilda and the Brisbane Bears when we were kids?
What SOS, Bolts, MLG  and Trigg have basically had to do is wipe out everything on and off the field pre end of 2015 and basically build a new Club.

Well that's Carlton now. Richmond fans were laughing at us last night.

Tend to agree.
Today's 16 year old would ve seen 4 spoons and only  4 years of finals appearances..... Now that's just SAD!!!

[townsendcalling]

Just like a page that has been copied too many times, and the final copy is just a blurred version of the original, I can kind of see where Bolts is coming from. I can kind of see the Hawthorn influence, I can see just like them, he tried keeping a reasonably settled defense, whilst throwing the forwards and mids all over the park to try and mix things up, and also to try and upset the opposition's rhythm. But I think he upset our rhythm more than the Tiges. Whereas the Hawks look precise, deliberate and purposeful when they do it, we looked random and confused, just doing it because they do it, and because that's what Bolton knows.

Not sure how precise, deliberate and purposeful the Hawks looked after their superdraft in 2004, when they finished 14 out of 16 in 2005 and 11 out of 16 in 2006. We tend to forget that Brisbane had exceptionally lean years before the halcyon days, as did Hawthorn, as did Geelong etc etc etc. 

Ride the bumps and stay resilient!! 

[Baggers]

I think that is a lie that has become a 'known truth'.
I believe you could play an entire team of under 23s and they would be able to match it. Most often the players are going one for one against their older opponents and neither Weitering or Cripps look overwhelmed by elder opponents, regardless of who is around them.

I completely dismiss the notion that you need bigger older bodies in there. I agree you won't win a flag with just younger players, but I think you get more by building a team where the culture is completely reset and those from an alternate era have no influence on where the club heads.

I would rather Curnow or McKay or Silvagni in our forward line over Casboult every single time, even though Casboult would take more contested marks. If i had 3 spots I would put all three of them in and still leave Casboult out.

Build a team of young , brash, cocky antisocial footballers unburdened by the softly approach our elder players have taken to games for years. I don't want them to be role models to these younger guys, not now, not for 1 more day/game.

Just look what happened with GWS. It wasn't until they brought in some strong, experienced and talented older players that there young talented brigade began to understand direction/discipline. It's a balancing act. If you only have younger blokes it ends up being lambs to the slaughter, regardless of how talented they are, and they may in fact end up scarred and developing a culture of failure expectation/tolerance.

As frustrating as it is, I think we're going about it the right way. In fact, I suspect another big clean-out at year's end to complete the 'reset'.

[flyboy77]

Nonetheless, on form, Thomas, White and Armfield can readily be swapped for Harry McKay, Palmer and Graham/Sheehan.

[Lods]

Nonetheless, on form, Thomas, White and Armfield can readily be swapped for Harry McKay, Palmer and Graham/Sheehan.

Yep
There are senior players we need to keep in the side but those on the fringe can make way.

[sydneybluesfan]

When you look at the stats vs LY a few things stand out;

1/ Richmond significantly increased their tackle pressure - we didn't.
2/ Richmond had much more i50's [+30% on LY] which generated nearly 40% more scoring shots than LY. We were exactly the same as LY on these stats.
3/ Our defence was horrible - both midfield pressure, back half turnovers, and general defending. We conceded 20% more shots than we did LY. LY we were a hard team to score against, last night the Tigers basically had a winning score at half time!!

There wasn't any areas where you could see tangible improvement, we made a huge number of critical skill errors [many from senior players] and our team defence was ordinary.

Tactically I think we got smashed. Dusty dominated and it just didn't appear we were doing anything to curb his influence in the middle. He ran free around the ground and stoppages. Senior players and the coach need to take responsibility for this.

The youth vs experience argument will rage all year. My view from my playing days is you need a balance - getting physically smashed and intimidated each week, and getting smashed on the scoreboard, can scar players for life. But we need to find experienced players who can make a contribution [eg Wright] vs guys who are just making up the numbers [Thomas, Armfield, White].

I though Rowe was far from our worst, the spoil when he should have marked was probably the big clanger, but it wasn't Jack and Griffiths who did the damage - it was the midfielders and small forwards.

I've said before the only way we will be competitive is IF Gibbs, Murph, Cripps and Kruz all play well - last night Cripps was down and Gibbs was up and down. Murph was ordinary in the first half with some terrible clangers, but he battled back well. Given his layoff it was probably a good game from him. SPS might add into that mix because he certainly looks like he has the tools. Question will be how quickly he picks up the pace, fitness and physical side and the ability to impact for 4 quarters.

With the kids I really want to see more pressure. SPS laid an equal team high of 7, but half our team laid 14 tackles between - that is just unacceptable in modern footy and that has nothing to do with skill, and everything to do with mindset.

[tonyo]

For re-building lists, look at St Kilda, Western Bulldogs, even Melbourne.

Carlton has never done it before - always gone for quick fixes and tried to win 10+ games in every season.

If you had asked any Western Bulldogs supporter at the start of 2015 if they would win a flag in 2016, you would have got a resounding no.  Turn arounds can come much quicker than most people imagine.

Hang tough