08-12-2021, 04:22 AM
I just wanted to write a statement here before we continue so others can get the idea of what I am trying to state.
"The standard you walk past, is the standard you are willing to accept".
Thats cool GI2C. Your experience is different to mine.
I didn't grow up in the inner north. We were in what was the outer east (like I said, Box Hill South area). Not the niche market it is today.
I don't compare my experience with that of the indigenous but I think I have an understanding of it from a different perspective thanks to history. Don't forget I mentioned a comparison regarding affluence earlier too. The Greeks general experience with persecution is a bit different to the Italians thanks to the Ottoman empire, and the forced Turkification of what historically is Greek lands and peoples (or at very least Hellenic which is a small difference in translation) and distinction. Forced conversion to Islam. Abandonment of allies during the crusades (Christian/Catholic schism politics allowing Muslim invaders), ethnic cleansing, pogroms (death marches), population "exchanges". Its a history that is more relevant to those over in europe but also, more closely resembling that of what the Indigenous went through rather than the Italians, but the distincion is poignant. Have a think about the fact that the Gallipoli peninsula literally translates to "Blue City" in Greek, and is to the south of Point Hellas as one example of what I mean, without getting into any real debate about it. For the most part, these are views that are perpetuated throughout history, and I recognise that the Hellenic or Byzantine empire likely did similar to their rivals. This is a point of difference between Italians and Greeks but it probably explains the different reaction to the people's experience with racism historically.
What I do see though, is that we are fighting racism, and your comment in bold represents a mentality that needs to shift. You allow the above, or explain it away, and you therefore allow and enable people to hold similar views, against different people (including the indigenous).
You cannot fight racism against one only and I think this is the point I was trying to make as strongly as possible (which seemed to meet some denigration, because "its different"). You must set the standard for acceptable behaviour for ALL people of society (that point was clearly missed in my previous posts). There is a changing of the guards around these matters occurring, and none of it is acceptable any more and dividing people along those lines is what breeds racist sentiment to begin with.
"why dont you F%* OFF, and go back to where you came from" is completely unacceptable to utter against ANY person, because of the statement that you are not welcome to be part of our functioning society based on your background. Its unacceptable, and like I stated before. 2018 was the last time I heard this. Not that long ago in the scheme of things to be hearing that rhetoric.
"The standard you walk past, is the standard you are willing to accept".
(08-12-2021, 03:26 AM)Gointocarlton link Wrote:@ Thry
Firstly please don't take this wrong way, I do not in any want to lesson anything you have experienced.
I grew up in the Thornbury-Northcote area that had (and still has) a huge Greek and Italian population. The Greek population was bigger by a fair way I'd guess so needless to say, I grew up with a lot of Greek friends. One common theme amongst my Greek friends was that their parents wanted to go back to Greece, many of them did with many only to return again. I can only vouch for me associations but this was vary rare amongst my Italian friends and relatives. In fact I cant recall one Italian mate or relative whos family returned to Italy. I never understood it that, perhaps the Greek community took the vilification more to heart??? I can tell you I was racially vilified as much as the next "wog" growing up but it didn't bother me, I never once got into a fight over it, I just ignored it. I was and still am extremely proud of my Italian heritage, but I in the back of mind, I knew those calling me names were actually just as my of an "import" as my parents were. Today, the "yuppies/hipsters" pay a small fortune for the Italian style panini and focaccia I used to eat, and still do, every day. So I guess eventually, the locals have learnt to accept European stuff. Having said all that, I personally cannot even begin to compare what I went through to what the indigenous people in this country have gone through and continue to experience.
Thats cool GI2C. Your experience is different to mine.
I didn't grow up in the inner north. We were in what was the outer east (like I said, Box Hill South area). Not the niche market it is today.
I don't compare my experience with that of the indigenous but I think I have an understanding of it from a different perspective thanks to history. Don't forget I mentioned a comparison regarding affluence earlier too. The Greeks general experience with persecution is a bit different to the Italians thanks to the Ottoman empire, and the forced Turkification of what historically is Greek lands and peoples (or at very least Hellenic which is a small difference in translation) and distinction. Forced conversion to Islam. Abandonment of allies during the crusades (Christian/Catholic schism politics allowing Muslim invaders), ethnic cleansing, pogroms (death marches), population "exchanges". Its a history that is more relevant to those over in europe but also, more closely resembling that of what the Indigenous went through rather than the Italians, but the distincion is poignant. Have a think about the fact that the Gallipoli peninsula literally translates to "Blue City" in Greek, and is to the south of Point Hellas as one example of what I mean, without getting into any real debate about it. For the most part, these are views that are perpetuated throughout history, and I recognise that the Hellenic or Byzantine empire likely did similar to their rivals. This is a point of difference between Italians and Greeks but it probably explains the different reaction to the people's experience with racism historically.
What I do see though, is that we are fighting racism, and your comment in bold represents a mentality that needs to shift. You allow the above, or explain it away, and you therefore allow and enable people to hold similar views, against different people (including the indigenous).
You cannot fight racism against one only and I think this is the point I was trying to make as strongly as possible (which seemed to meet some denigration, because "its different"). You must set the standard for acceptable behaviour for ALL people of society (that point was clearly missed in my previous posts). There is a changing of the guards around these matters occurring, and none of it is acceptable any more and dividing people along those lines is what breeds racist sentiment to begin with.
"why dont you F%* OFF, and go back to where you came from" is completely unacceptable to utter against ANY person, because of the statement that you are not welcome to be part of our functioning society based on your background. Its unacceptable, and like I stated before. 2018 was the last time I heard this. Not that long ago in the scheme of things to be hearing that rhetoric.
"everything you know is wrong"
Paul Hewson
Paul Hewson