CV and mad panic behaviour

[kruddler]

But isn't it also grandstanding or politicizing to suggest than anyone that thinks Dan should be gone is irrational?
Not a dig, just a question.

I don't think so.

The majority of people who want Dan gone will either throw in a labour or liberal reference....certainly in the media at least. Thus revealing their hand/bias.

You are able to debate the merits of someone (abusing) being in a position of power without trying to point score politically.

Do we bring up which way MLG votes when we debate whether he is the right man for the job? Liddle??
Focus on the individual and the role they are doing. Yes, obviously i get he is a politician, but people who focus on that are not looking at it from a neutral point of view...usually.

Would that include me, who is very vocal about poor Dan has been? Despite that fact I consider myself in the middle, I am in the middle left and if there were two equal candidates would vote labour. The 4 best politicians in my life from a Victorian or Federal level have been Bob Hawke, Little Johnny Howard, Jeff Kennett and Steve Bracks. 2 x ALP, 2 x Lib... but I was absolutely ALP in those days and would never have voted for Kennett or Howard.

I don't know you well enough to make that call. But as an example there is a bloke i work with who thinks he is in the middle too. He is about as strong in his beliefs as anyone and is very much 'right' to anyone who talks politics with him.....he doesn't see it that way though....which is laughable if you know him.
That being said, immediately after you and I had this debate the other day, you started a 'who would you vote for' thread, so this is weighing on your mind politically, even if it is indirectly.

Well does it need to be compared to people around the world.
I mea I can't name so many other countries with the geographical situation of Victoria. No internationals (at all) after we stopped receiving them, there are not random boat people arriving on the shores of Portsea. We have almost non existant border breaches and that is with states who already have it completely under control.

We had a virus with known infection rates completely under control, failed to quarantine it and then failed to act.

I don't even know why Donald Trump would be used in any comparison, or Putin or Iraq's leaders etc.
I can't make an argument that Papa Doc was an B+ leader because he wasn't Stalin for example.
I am not actually comparing Stalin with Trump or Papa Doc with Dan, I am just stating you can't make a comparison here. They have different powers, run vastly different geographical areas and even then, you are comparing with the worst.

What about in comparison to
Annastacia Palaszczuk
Gladys Berejiklian
Mark McGowan etc

And if you really want an international leader, how close is Dan to Jacinta Arden?

Well this is part of the problem. You talk about the inability to find a parallel with Victoria. This is both a pro and a con. In one way, it has helped us by being in a relatively unique situation. In another way it means we are going into unknown territory of sorts in how to control it.

The reason for bringing up Trump and looking internationally is simply to show that there is not a clear right and wrong, but rather a spectrum. Trump is clearly on the other end of it to Dan. I'm not saying our situations are identical, far from it, but just that there were plenty of other ways Dan could've reacted in this situation.

Personally i think the biggest issue Dan has had to face, and i've said it all along, is that he trusts Victorians too much. He outlines what we should do and he expects us to do it. No, not us, we know better. Those rules don't apply to me, i can do whatever i want because i NEED a latte.  :

It reminds me of the whole Myki thing. We scoured the rest of the world for a system to adopt, i think we used Tokyo and/or Japans in the end. I remember at one stage them talking to Germany about their system and how it (IIRC) lacked turnstiles when going into the train stations and what not. The question was posed, how do you make sure people are using the system and paying correctly without turnstiles....the response was, people wouldn't dream of NOT using it correctly - why would they?

A workable solution for Germany, and one that would be well and truly abused by Australians. Much like Dans guidelines IMO. Aussies don't like doing what they are told.....and THAT has cost Dan more than anything,

Your language suggests that 2 weeks is well not such a big deal, even when I  suggest there is quite a reasonable chance that more than 50% of infections in the 2nd wave could still have been avoided by acting more quickly.

And btw I think 2 weeks is being extremely generous to Dan, in reality he should have acted as early as 21-25 days sooner than he did. I am using that as the base timeline in my modelling, because it is that time by which he absolutely had no excuses at all, could be under no illusion at all, that this was community wide and a major infection requiring more than wet lettuce responses.

I'm not saying your numbers are wrong.
I'm not saying 2 weeks is insignificant.
I'm just saying that its a spectrum...and 2 weeks is not a lot of time in reality.

Mathematically, 2 weeks (or more as you imply) makes sense.
Logistically, its a bit harder to make that happen.
How much time does it take you to go through every industry in Australia with a fine tooth comb and weight up whether it is more beneficial to close it for Covid reasons, or keep it open for financial reasons?
Remember how people continued to try and pick apart each stage of the lockdowns and look for inaccuracies?
Why am i not allowed to play golf? I am social distancing, and exercising, but i can't play.....BS!

How many micro-examples need to be worked through in order to put out a new lockdown stage. I appreciate some of this work can be done prior, but to suggest its just a switch we can flick and tada.....is where the mathematical models and the real world models simply cannot line up.

So kudos for you for working out timeframes etc, but you didn't have to work out the how and why of it all.

As far as where i sit in all this from a personal point of view...
I am working in the construction industry....which in reality is one of Dans favourite sectors.
I have been largely unaffected by COVID, thankfully.

However, i was pushing for construction to be locked down as well as a means to an end for this virus, ala Ardern when we went to stage 4. I didn't want this stage 4 to have to be increased in duration, or go to a stage 5 which included construction, because he did not go hard enough in implementing it.

In the end, we've got the best of both worlds. Containing Covid and keeping the economy going somewhat via construction in the process. That is another big tick for Dan, despite being of the opinion that call was initially wrong IMO.

So again, mathematical numbers vs logistics of reality is my take on the 2nd wave side of things.