Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

[Mav]

Maybe I'll get an invite to the Oval Office then.

[mateinone]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mA0kk29DBA 

I mean this with all due respect, but I can't respond to crackpot literature/"documentaries". ( I am calling them crackpot not yourself btw).

Even the overview is enough to make it clear that this is from a hard right wing style group. I can read the same sort of "history" by any holocaust denial "historian" also. See my comments on Weber.

[Mav]

Wow!

NYTimes reports that Trump told the Russian Foreign Minister and Ambassador at the now infamous meeting that he had just fired that nut job Comey and that had taken a lot of pressure off him concerning Russia.

And the WPo reports that a close adviser of Trump's is now a significant person of interest in the investigation. Until now, the targets appeared to be former Trump associates such as Flynn, Manafort and Page.  I wouldn't be surprised if it's Jared Kuschner. He had some dealings with a dodgy Russian bank with links to the Kremlin and left those dealings off his financial declaration forms.  As he's Trump's son-in-law, that would cut right to the bone.  Trump could boot him from the WH but not from his family.

Bigger than the above is a report that Comey will testify before Congress.  Some had predicted that Mueller would persuade Comey to keep mum while he, Mueller, set to work. Interesting times ahead. Imagine the Twitter rants to come  ;D

[Lods]

I wonder how President Pence is going to do things differently
I doubt he'll be a big tweeter

[cimm1979]

I wonder how President Pence is going to do things differently
I doubt he'll be a big tweeter

Hopefully He's going to get dragged into this. Trumps overtly ridiculous but Pence is actually a monster. His views are far more extreme than trumps and he a christian fundamentalist who believes in holy wars and using nuclear weapons to start them . His views is that it doesn't matter if everyone gets killed because the righteous will be in heaven.

Where have we heard that shit before.

[Mav]

Russian officials bragged in conversations during the presidential campaign that they had cultivated a strong relationship with former Trump adviser retired Gen. Michael Flynn and believed they could use him to influence Donald Trump and his team, sources told CNN.

Russian officials bragged they could use Flynn to influence Trump, sources say, CNN.

Amazing...

Flynn apparently did influence US policy in Syria.  The Obama administration had proposed to back Kurdish rebels in Syria as they were keen to attack ISIS (whereas Assad and Russia were more interested in attacking rebels).  Flynn opposed this and the operation didn't proceed.

Now, it just so happens that this aligned with the views of Erdogan's Turkey.  Turkey is highly opposed to arming the Kurds for any reason.  Just because Flynn and Erdogan were of the same mind doesn't mean anything was dodgy.  Great minds may just think alike.

But after his dismissal by Trump, Flynn finally registered as an agent of the Turkish Government and disclosed that the Turks paid the firm employing Flynn $500,000. So Trump had an undisclosed agent of the Turkish Government as National Security Adviser influencing White House policy in line with the views of the Turkish Government.  :

Would Flynn have acted as an agent of influence for the Kremlin if he hadn't been sacked?

[thrunthrublu]

Maybe I'll get an invite to the Oval Office then.

or coffee with david brock

[thrunthrublu]

I mean this with all due respect, but I can't respond to crackpot literature/"documentaries". ( I am calling them crackpot not yourself btw).

Even the overview is enough to make it clear that this is from a hard right wing style group. I can read the same sort of "history" by any holocaust denial "historian" also. See my comments on Weber.

hard either side is irrelevant. With reciprocal due respect, is any of it fiction?
we're talking about the outbreak of WW2 and annexing of German lands - nothing to do with weber or holocaust

[mateinone]

we're talking about the outbreak of WW2 and annexing of German lands - nothing to do with weber or holocaust

Oh I get that (though I don't agree with the annexing of German lands. I mention Weber and the holocaust as examples of revisionists. Which I consider those that made this video to be, though I didn't finish it as it seems a waste of time, I can read similar articles as well, but I disagree with the conclusions they draw also.

Just a couple of small points though around the annexing on German lands. Is Germany considering the "Holy Roman Empire" as what is German land or is it considering anything that any time was ever taken by the Germans?

I ask because Danzig/Gdansk, was made up of majority German people, but was not German land, the only time it really was "German" was during the period where Germany and Russia took Poland by force and dissolved the entire country.

I also ask at what period Germany is referring when it says that the Sudetenland in Czech was German.. Again it was German majority, but that alone doesn't make it German.

The "documentary" does at all try and take an unbias look at things, it says that poor little Hitler was forced into any of his actions and just wanted to live happily with everyone, but that isn't true, there was absolute no requirement to invade Poland, for a start it is not like the German majority in Danzig was being persecuted in fact history shows the opposite and that once the NAZI party took over in Danzig the Polish and Jewish minorities were under attack.

The reason I couldn't watch the lot was simple, I feel I know exactly what they are trying to achieve and it is just like watching a Michael Moore "documentary".

If lands go to whoever once took them by force, then all of Europe has claims to be owned elsewhere, from the Danes owning most of England (in a very abstract manner as it was never claimed for Denmark), to Italy owning most of Europe and Napoleon from the West Coast of Europe to Moscow.

In my view of the world, Hitler's Germany was about expansionism and yes cleansing Europe of "undesirables", it was about absolute power under one party and one person. Any talk of unification of lost lands, was simply talk to bolster support of the masses in a frenzy of patriotic support for a greater motherland.

German never went to war to prevent Stalin and France from encircling and taking Germany, that simply could not be less true. If that really was the aim of Stalin and France, Germany was ripe for the picking as soon as it disarmed.

Edit:
One thing I will say... The Treaty of Versailles strongly contributed to World War II and in fact the attraction of the NAZI party in Germany, because it sought belittle and bankrupt a proud nation. It was a huge mistake by the allies after World War I.
If doesn't however excuse Hitler and Germany for World War II.

[thrunthrublu]

Oh I get that (though I don't agree with the annexing of German lands. I mention Weber and the holocaust as examples of revisionists. Which I consider those that made this video to be, though I didn't finish it as it seems a waste of time, I can read similar articles as well, but I disagree with the conclusions they draw also.

Just a couple of small points though around the annexing on German lands. Is Germany considering the "Holy Roman Empire" as what is German land or is it considering anything that any time was ever taken by the Germans?

I ask because Danzig/Gdansk, was made up of majority German people, but was not German land, the only time it really was "German" was during the period where Germany and Russia took Poland by force and dissolved the entire country.

I also ask at what period Germany is referring when it says that the Sudetenland in Czech was German.. Again it was German majority, but that alone doesn't make it German.

The "documentary" does at all try and take an unbias look at things, it says that poor little Hitler was forced into any of his actions and just wanted to live happily with everyone, but that isn't true, there was absolute no requirement to invade Poland, for a start it is not like the German majority in Danzig was being persecuted in fact history shows the opposite and that once the NAZI party took over in Danzig the Polish and Jewish minorities were under attack.

The reason I couldn't watch the lot was simple, I feel I know exactly what they are trying to achieve and it is just like watching a Michael Moore "documentary".

If lands go to whoever once took them by force, then all of Europe has claims to be owned elsewhere, from the Danes owning most of England (in a very abstract manner as it was never claimed for Denmark), to Italy owning most of Europe and Napoleon from the West Coast of Europe to Moscow.

In my view of the world, Hitler's Germany was about expansionism and yes cleansing Europe of "undesirables", it was about absolute power under one party and one person. Any talk of unification of lost lands, was simply talk to bolster support of the masses in a frenzy of patriotic support for a greater motherland.

German never went to war to prevent Stalin and France from encircling and taking Germany, that simply could not be less true. If that really was the aim of Stalin and France, Germany was ripe for the picking as soon as it disarmed.

The carve up of Germany after WW1, the reparations thereafter, the occupation of the ruhr by the french, left Germany in a hopeless situation. Plundered from inside and out and Berlin turned into a cesspool. Context is important.
The planned destruction of Germany wasn't because of expansionism, nazism, Poland, or anything else other than for Balance. A usury free state, zero unemployment, high home ownership, workers rights zero debt was a system that was unacceptable to world jewry at the time, hence them declaring war on Germany and ensuring it eventuated at all costs. Expansionism was clear under Stalin, who plundered his own people , stole and starved them to fund this. The soviets were not signatories to the 1929 Geneva convention and were a massive threat to not only Germany but to all of Europe. When you speak to the old soldiers, Red terror was the real threat to europe.
Funnily enough, these soldiers knew the war was over in 1943 deep into barbarossa, when they found used cans of american food stuffs everywhere left by Stalins armies. They knew the Americans had made "deliveries"
There have been many lies for 75 years and they will continue to persist , even in this age of information or disinformation. Why? opinions vary. I know, and im comfortable with that. The fact that This conversation is teetering on being even illegal in 19 countries, says something