Where do you think Carlton will finish in 2017?

[blue4life]

Sorry, I should've been clearer - my question was essentially rhetorical. I know exactly why it happens (not forgetting the media influence). But it's a deplorable state of affairs that invisible men (and a few gals) with deep pockets, many of whom know jack-sh1t about football, should be allowed to get away with it. And our club seems to fall into this trap more than most.

Our club was run as a rich man's fiefdom for many years until Elliott brought it to the brink of destruction from which we've never fully recovered.
Even the Judd trade was a poor long term football decision but his value in attracting members and sponsors outweighed football cosiderations due to our precarious financial position at the time.
Carlton has been about as badly managed as it's possible for a club to be and we're now in a state of decline, it will take a mighty effort to turn the ship around. 

[PaulP]

Our club was run as a rich man's fiefdom for many years until Elliott brought it to the brink of destruction from which we've never fully recovered.
Even the Judd trade was a poor long term football decision but his value in attracting members and sponsors outweighed football cosiderations due to our precarious financial position at the time.
Carlton has been about as badly managed as it's possible for a club to be and we're now in a state of decline, it will take a mighty effort to turn the ship around.

Agree with all, except I was and am a fan of the Judd trade.

[LP]

Agree with all, except I was and am a fan of the Judd trade.

I'd do the Judd trade again tomorrow!

What I'd be looking to do very differently was the players around him. In particular I'd find extras / others like Carrazzo and McLean who could do the heavy lifting inside work and leave Judd on the fast-break-away with Murphy. For example, I think Gibbs could have gone inside mid a long time ago, while Judd was still in his prime.

[PaulP]

I'd do the Judd trade again tomorrow!

What I'd be looking to do very differently was the players around him. In particular I'd find extras / others like Carrazzo and McLean who could do the heavy lifting inside work and leave Judd on the fast-break-away with Murphy. For example, I think Gibbs could have gone inside mid a long time ago, while Judd was still in his prime.

Same. You can't pass up a once-in-a-generation player when they say they want to come to our club.

The theory re Gibbs as I have read, is that our backline was so bad at kicking that Scotto, Yazz and and Gibbs had to be played there to get any kind of rebound happening. Don't know if it's true. 

[blue4life]

Agree with all, except I was and am a fan of the Judd trade.

Given that we were virtually bankrupt at the time we probably didn't have much choice, Judd paid his wages many times over with new sponsors and members.
Not only that, he also set standards and gave the club credibility, but in pure football terms it was a poor trade.

[LP]

Same. You can't pass up a once-in-a-generation player when they say they want to come to our club.

The theory re Gibbs as I have read, is that our backline was so bad at kicking that Scotto, Yazz and and Gibbs had to be played there to get any kind of rebound happening. Don't know if it's true.

Personally, I wouldn't give a rats ar5e about the HBFs! I'd put any old blokes like Treacle, Molasses and Corn Syrup in the midfield as long as they could get the stoppage ball out to the likes Judd, Scotland, Murphy, Garlett, Betts, Armfield or Yarran I don't care!

The sad thing is, I think Ratten was the best midfield coach we've had since the Parkin / Briton days. But he never really got the rest of the field sorted as he probably needed it. We won stoppage after stoppage, not just as a result of Judd because we won them without Judd playing. I suppose in hindsight we know there were many issues around Fev, Yarran, O'hAilpin, Cloke, Garlett, Robinson, etc., etc and a bit of club politics as well.

[PaulP]

Personally, I wouldn't give a rats ar5e about the HBFs! I'd put any old blokes like Treacle, Molasses and Corn Syrup in the midfield as long as they could get the stoppage ball out to the likes Judd, Scotland, Murphy, Garlett, Betts, Armfield or Yarran I don't care!

The sad thing is, I think Ratten was the best midfield coach we've had since the Parkin / Briton days. But he never really got the rest of the field sorted as he probably needed it. We won stoppage after stoppage, not just as a result of Judd because we won them without Judd playing. I suppose in hindsight we know there were many issues around Fev, Yarran, O'hAilpin, Cloke, Garlett, Robinson, etc., etc and a bit of club politics as well.

If you compare points F/A in 09 (Fev's last year) and 10,11, you will see that there was a dip in 10 compared to 09, as the coaches tried to figure out a new forward structure. Then in 2011, you see they sorted it out and we had more points for and less against than 09 and 10. A forward line that at various times consisted of the 3 amigos, Waite, Hendo, Setanta, Thornton. Not exactly the stuff of dreams.

[PaulP]

At any rate, back on topic. I voted 13th-15th, and I thought that was being pessimistic. Now, I'm not so sure.

[LP]

If you compare points F/A in 09 (Fev's last year) and 10,11, you will see that there was a dip in 10 compared to 09, as the coaches tried to figure out a new forward structure. Then in 2011, you see they sorted it out and we had more points for and less against than 09 and 10. A forward line that at various times consisted of the 3 amigos, Waite, Hendo, Setanta, Thornton. Not exactly the stuff of dreams.

Yeah, I get that. What I think is we haven't scored enough from the midfield and we left our better options buried in the traffic. It's worth pondering when you think an extra 1 or 2 goal average per game is equal to 3 or 4 spots higher on the ladder.

[Gointocarlton]

Yeah, I get that. What I think is we haven't scored enough from the midfield and we left our better options buried in the traffic. It's worth pondering when you think an extra 1 or 2 goal average per game is equal to 3 or 4 spots higher on the ladder.

Agree. There is a saying in business which is analogous (to me at least), "BD is everyone's responsibility in an organisation", goal scoring being analogous to BD, the team to the organisation. Sounds simple but if everyone doesnt buy in...