Where do you think Carlton will finish in 2017?

[LP]

Clarko, by contrast. evolved and continued to change his game plan.

Even Clarkson's gloss is wearing off, he's lost the guidance of a lot of strong individuals and it appears he's running off the rails. His fate will be very interesting in the coming months and years, the likes of Dunstall and Brereton influence a powerful coterie that is very unforgiving!

At the moment I think Clarkson's old school ways sit quite nicely with the Dunstalls and Breretons of this world, but I am not sure the next generations of recruits will be so easily dominated.

How much of Clarkson's superb player development came form the Tassie teachers, Bolton and Fagan? Perhaps Clarkson's lasting legacy will be that he identified Tassie as an underutilised AFL resource!

[laj]

Even Clarkson's gloss is wearing off, he's lost the guidance of a lot of strong individuals and it appears he's running off the rails. His fate will be very interesting in the coming months and years, the likes of Dunstall and Brereton influence a powerful coterie that is very unforgiving!

At the moment I think Clarkson's old school ways sit quite nicely with the Dunstalls and Breretons of this world, but I am not sure the next generations of recruits will be so easily dominated.

Clarko did evolve with each of his flags as he knew you couldn't sit still. Inevitably his guns were going to grow old and there was going to be a down period but he's quite capable of evolving again. Sheedy re-invented himself for 27 years.

Think it was the other way around. I'm thinking Bolton and Fagan might have picked up much about player development from Clarko.

[LP]

Sheedy re-invented himself for 27 years.

Not the complete story, Sheedy used his heavy influence over the CheatsFC dominated AFL Board to have rules changed to suit his list!

[laj]

Not the complete story, Sheedy used his heavy influence over the CheatsFC dominated AFL Board to have rules changed to suit his list!

At 27 years of coaching you've shown the ability to re-invent yourself many times.

[blue4life]

So we fail because of the club and not primarily because of the coaches, is that your point? If so, I tend to agree, but I think MM was an exception

I think we've failed primarily due to our woeful recruiting.
Someone pointed out on here the other day that the three years from 2012 to 2014 have been an almost complete bust recruiting wise apart from Cripps and one other whose name escapes me.
If this was isolated then it wouldn't be as critical but it's part of a long history stretching back decades, no club can be competitive under those circumstances.
I don't buy the player development line by the way, a large number of our recruiting busts have been established players.
It's a hangover from the Elliott days of "we don't rebuild at Carlton", we just never came to terms with the draft and we've paid a very heavy price.

[LP]

I think we've failed primarily due to our woeful recruiting.
Someone pointed out on here the other day that the three years from 2012 to 2014 have been an almost complete bust recruiting wise apart from Cripps and one other whose name escapes me.
If this was isolated then it wouldn't be as critical but it's part of a long history stretching back decades, no club can be competitive under those circumstances.
I don't buy the player development line by the way, a large number of our recruiting busts have been established players.
It's a hangover from the Elliott days of "we don't rebuild at Carlton", we just never came to terms with the draft and we've paid a very heavy price.

While I agree our draft and trade result is poor, it might not be as accidental as we believe!

It depends whether you think that result was accidental or deliberate. For a long time now, at least 4 or 5 years, I have heard rumors Carlton is positioning itself for when full unrestricted free agency arrives. It has even been rumored to be the reason why so many players, 27 I think, are currently under contracts that expire at the end of this season! Let's see what the CBA brings.

[PaulP]

I think we've failed primarily due to our woeful recruiting.
Someone pointed out on here the other day that the three years from 2012 to 2014 have been an almost complete bust recruiting wise apart from Cripps and one other whose name escapes me.
If this was isolated then it wouldn't be as critical but it's part of a long history stretching back decades, no club can be competitive under those circumstances.
I don't buy the player development line by the way, a large number of our recruiting busts have been established players.
It's a hangover from the Elliott days of "we don't rebuild at Carlton", we just never came to terms with the draft and we've paid a very heavy price.

I think it's recruiting, development, culture, bad appointments, the board..................

[PaulP]

Time passes you by pretty quickly in the coaching caper as the game quickly evolves. Both Pagan and Malthouse kept going previous old methods that the opposition quickly worked out. The same plan doesn't work for more than a couple of years. Pagan was still controlling interchanges at the end meaning we were going at 30 a game while the opposition were going at 80-100+. The issue you have with old coaches. Clarko, by contrast. evolved and continued to change his game plan. Ratten did coach to our strengths hence had success, even if that was downhill skiing, which we did need to sort admittedly to take the next step, but hey, we were winning. He never had a super list so he did well to get us to 3 finals series.

The only period when we were generally moving in the right direction was 08-12.

[Gointocarlton]

I think it's recruiting, development, culture, bad appointments, the board..................

"In summing up, it’s the constitution, it’s Mabo, it’s justice, it’s law, it’s the vibe and aah no that’s it, it’s the vibe. I rest my case"
BY DENIS DENUTO  "As seen on TV" - The Castle·

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