2017 Round 5: Post Game Prognostications: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

[LP]

...and we had Walker at #2.

Point remains, we've had 'rebuilds' of sort before, we've had some young emerging talent that everyone gets excited about......AND one of the best forwards in the game.
This time around, our kids seem to be more abundant, but we have less top end senior talent who will be there in the long term.
Is it possible that these kids we are relying upon might not make the jump to the next level as soon as we'd hoped (if at all)?

Time for a rethink?

Trade Cripps, Weiters and get multiple 1st Rnd draft picks for use in trade or drafting, I'm talking we want 4 or 5 picks under 10 that give us Plowman, Marchbank, Williamson quality players or better. Much more list depth, dramatically more list depth is required.

It will be 3 or 4 years before Cripps and Weiters hit their peak, and they have to stay fit, focussed, and contracted to get to that point which by the week looks increasingly unlikely. If we break them over the next few years their value plummets and our resource is lost. At the moment it looks unlikely we'll be able to hang onto the kids like Cripps or Weiters anyway! I know a relative of Weiters has already put out the feelers, as disappointing as it is and regardless of what Weiters thinks, others connected to him are already thinking along those lines! For a team on the verge of the top 4 these guys are worth multiple draft picks!

Keep the likes of Murphy, Gibbs, Rowe, etc, etc, let them play out their careers while we build a strong next generation at VFL level. Pour effort and money into player development at the lower level, the NB thing isn't really working for us, it's just a low cost solution.

[PaulP]

More likely that Bolton has asked him to. Getting senior staff to the coal face is straightforward modern management practice to change perspectives. It aligns decision makers in their thinking.

These are good signs of a club that is taking a modern approach to management. Trigg has kicked alot of doors down so far.

I wasn't aware of this modern practice - I don't work in the corporate world.

Thanks for posting. Certainly much better than my paranoid mental wanderings.

[RiverRat]

Trade Cripps, Weiters and get multiple 1st Rnd draft picks for use in trade or drafting, I'm talking we want 4 or 5 picks under 10 that give us Plowman, Marchbank, Williamson quality players or better. Much more list depth, dramatically more list depth is required.

It will be 3 or 4 years before Cripps and Weiters hit their peak, and they have to stay fit, focused, and contracted to get to that point which by the week looks increasingly unlikely. If we break them over the next few years their value plummets and our resource is lost. At the moment it looks unlikely we'll be able to hang onto the kids like Cripps or Weiters anyway! For a team on the verge of the top 4 these guys are worth multiple draft picks!

I doubt you will get much support for this apparent heresy but I would keep an open mind because both have limitations in speed. I know that players with great talents (like Cripps and Weitering) can be dominant players without having speed (e.g. Greg Williams) but that was more than a couple of decades ago and the game has since become progressively faster and more reliant on both-way running capacity.

Additionally, both players are showing signs of frequently playing injured. This is a massive plus in relation to their intentional fortitude and commitment but, on the flip side, questions needs to be asked about whether they are physical susceptibility to injuries. Are they being injured because they have underlying weaknesses that are likely to be ongoing (possibly contributing to a shorter career) or are they getting injuries due to the combative way they play or are being required to play?

Honest assessments and discussions about their physical soundness and their long-term commitments to the club would need to be taken into consideration when considering such contentious actions.

[LP]

I doubt you will get much support for this apparent heresy but I would keep an open mind because both have limitations in speed. I know that players with great talents (like Cripps and Weitering) can be dominant players without having speed (e.g. Greg Williams) but that was more than a couple of decades ago and the game has since become progressively faster and more reliant on both-way running capacity.

Additionally, both players are showing signs of frequently playing injured. This is a massive plus in relation to their intentional fortitude and commitment but, on the flip side, questions needs to be asked about whether they are physical susceptibility to injuries. Are they being injured because they have underlying weaknesses that are likely to be ongoing (possibly contributing to a shorter career) or are they getting injuries due to the combative way they play or are being required to play?

Honest assessments and discussions about their physical soundness and their long-term commitments to the club would need to be taken into consideration when considering such contentious actions.

Your logic is sound and the questions you pose valid.

Add young SoJ to that lack of leg speed list and we have a significant problem, and at the moment at least it seems Curnow Jnr is also lacking in straight line speed. Just like we have too many kids, we have far too many players who cannot cover enough ground which does result in heavier traffic, slow play and a more combative game styles when we have the ball. When we don't have the ball we have an even bigger problem, there is no getting it back!

The likes of SPS and Pickett are not the answer, they are almost insignificant when we have to deal with players who do cover the ground like Trengove, Wines, Westhoff, Ryder, etc., etc..

While I do not expect blokes like Kreuzer, Casboult and Phillips to be race horses, having just one or two big blokes who have some decent closing speed would make a huge difference to our team on game day. McKay certainly looks quicker across the ground, Jones is quick enough when he decides to go, and Jaksch is also quick but in very straight lines and single efforts.

[cookie2]

Honest assessments and discussions about their physical soundness and their long-term commitments to the club would need to be taken into consideration when considering such contentious actions.

I would hope that the club will be doing a thorough review of what transpires during this season and clearly identifying what has worked and what hasn't, leading to any plan adjustments that may be necessary. I too have an open mind as to possibilities but relying on existing players like Murphy, Gibbs, Simmo, Daisy and others for instance to be around or staying fit for any length of time may be a problem.

[LP]

I would hope that the club will be doing a thorough review of what transpires during this season and clearly identifying what has worked and what hasn't, leading to any plan adjustments that may be necessary. I too have an open mind as to possibilities but relying on existing players like Murphy, Gibbs, Simmo, Daisy and others for instance to be around or staying fit for any length of time may be a problem.

If the club has taken a long term view, why is it playing guys like Cripps injured and wearing abdominal guards?

[ElwoodBlues1]

it was pure madness the persistent do nothing/sideways kicking that simply allowed every port player to flood back and then we panicked and coughed it up.....

Said it before that Bolton is a great educator and perfect for rebuilding with kids but tactics wise is untested and is learning that part of the coaching caper as he goes so he is going to get it wrong at times. The Weitering experiment down forward is one thats needs reviewing IMO....I'd rather see Jones or Jaksch doing some heavy lifting down forward and freeing up Casboult and Silvagni, Weitering needs to be back at CHB IMO where his lack of pace is less of a problem...the bloke who should be tried a bit more down the ground is Marchbank who likes flying for a mark and is more of a ball winner IMO. Like to see a bit more imagination rather than Weitering and Rowe just swapping ends...

[cookie2]

If the club has taken a long term view, why is it playing guys like Cripps injured and wearing abdominal guards?

Don't you think it has taken a long term view?

[townsendcalling]

If the club has taken a long term view, why is it playing guys like Cripps injured and wearing abdominal guards?

Exactly my point earlier in the thread. There is no excuse for playing an injured kid.  Totally unnecessary...and don't give me that 'character building' crap.

[LP]

Don't you think it has taken a long term view?

I think the clubs behaviour isn't matching it's talk.

Perhaps our financial situation is far worse than we realise!

Perhaps Bolton's tenure isn't anywhere near as secure as we are lead to believe!

The person who needs to put all this to bed is LoGuidice, he's conspicuous by his absence!

Do you think playing kids injured will accelerate their development while delivering some other long term benefit?