Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

[LP]

^^lp I don't doubt that they could know if there was something to know,  but there are two issues that I see.

1.  Motive.  Someone mentioned ethnic cleansing, and I'll admit that's fine but this is a small fry way to try that on.  surely Assad would be better equipped to handle this if that's what drove him.

2.  If it was him, I'm confident everyone would have been shown how and when not to mention who actually performed this attack.
After all, why keep it quiet? If there is footage of it, it would suit the allied forces for it to be in the public domain wouldn't it??

You know that is not how surveillance works, if they make it public they risk exposing their methods and operatives. There is a very good reason it's called the "Secret Service!"

As for motive, as exposed in the Mossack Fonseca scandal I'm sure extending the Al-Assad's families trillion dollar dynasty in Syria is more than enough motive! I'm not sure we need some other motive like racism to be involved when the family has a history of corrupt wealth at their countries expense.

[Thryleon]

^^

That falls over pretty fast as this act isn't a means to an end to extend influence nor
They could also state more fact without giving away trade secrets.

Im pretty sure they can tell me his bank account details, address and perhaps his pin number for his account without telling me how they obtain this information. Ditto the chemical attack.

[mateinone]

Spicer's problem is that he has arguably the most important communication job in the world.
There should be no grey area.
No room for misinterpretation.
No need for clarification or apology.

He seems to fail this task on a regular basis.

I don't see a lot of difference between dropping chemicals on a village from the air or dropping them through a hole in the roof....except that in the enclosed setting you have much less chance of survival.

Both are obviously extremely heinous and I think the acts of genocide were considerably worse than what has occurred to date in Syria.

With Spicer to me it seems obvious he isn't saying that the Syrians are worse than the Nazis, he is attempting to point out how heinous Assad is and using a specific example, which was a very stupid example to use.

The speech writers (whether it is a team or himself) have screwed that up, but I don't consider it the type of error that would force someone out of office. The previous attacks on the media on the other hand...

@fly and any others
With regards to the evidence, what evidence is expected?
Are you suggesting that Chemical attack never happened? If that is the case, why is it that no independent observers, not Syria or Russia themselves is disputing that civilians were killed by gas?

And if the US are covering up the perpetrators, then that makes them complicit is a serious crime against humanity, which would see every one of them removed from Office and certainly those involved would face charges.

Considering it is the Syrians and Russians dropping bombs on the civilian population, considering the Syrians and the Russians have both used chemicals on civilians and that Syria has previously admitted to having a stockpile of chemical weapons (which they claim they destroyed)...
What about even the circumstantial evidence points to this being an American cover up over a Syrian action (with or without the approval/knowledge of Russia)?

[LP]

MIO, who are the whackos in Sydney that seem to be at the world center for the propagation of this conspiracy rubbish?

FFS, they are claiming Assad was set-up, like he needs another black mark after all he has already done to his country in the name of cash. Really! :o

Alas the whackos are really whackos. This isn't 1918, the world including Syria is fully wired. Do the whackos think the current members of the media are not interested in becoming the next Watergate hero? Doesn't Trump and Spicer have any journalistic enemies? The whackos should rationalise those ideas in light of the recent events and the media's focus on pronunciation as a world evil. Pathetic really!

Oh no, they are all in it together, build those bunkers boys they are a coming!

These are extraordinary claims in an era when somebody can become a Youtube Megastar just from picking their nose on a freeway!

You'd think the world media should be more worried about China preparing to opportunistically annex North Korea than how to say Assad!

[flyboy77]

https://www.rt.com/usa/384520-postol-rep...rin-syria/

The Western nations have blindly followed the US's imperialistic agenda since the end of WW2 - they aren't going to change their stance now....

It's not conspiracy to suggest that one nation should not bomb another sovereign nation without hard, cold, irrefutable facts....

That's what the Yanks do day in, day out, killing countless innocents and no one, other than the Ruskies, ever calls them on it.

[cookie2]

US policy, driven by the neocons, is to establish complete global hegemony. Its actions mainly support that goal. Join the dots.

[LP]

https://www.rt.com/usa/384520-postol-rep...rin-syria/

The Western nations have blindly followed the US's imperialistic agenda since the end of WW2 - they aren't going to change their stance now....

It's not conspiracy to suggest that one nation should not bomb another sovereign nation without hard, cold, irrefutable facts....

That's what the Yanks do day in, day out, killing countless innocents and no one, other than the Ruskies, ever calls them on it.

So MIO's assertion is correct, you really do think it didn't happen! :o

Rrrrriiiight!  :-\

The US have all that high tech weaponry, if they don't care about UN conventions and behavior, why bother spending all that freaking money when they could just use their,

[flyboy77]

I never said nothing happened, I'm just far from convinced the US line is anywhere near the truth.

Try this if you want another take....

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/46845.htm

[mateinone]

Fly I hardly now how to respond.
The yanks are dropping bombs day in and day out on sovereign states, without hard irrefutable facts ???

Do you mind if I ask which states you are explicitly meaning?

I wrote a huge essay just then (and subsequently deleted, this is just the very short version  :o ) on why Russia is hardly the beacon of truth and how Europe has in fact a deep mistrust of Russia.

I don't see it as Europe and other allies turning a blind eye, in fact I think they are extremely grateful that America flexes it's muscle in these situations as they see it as having the potential to have direct ramifications within Europe.

Why Russia is stating it will go to war in this situation, is it really as it says.. because America is infringing on the sovereignty of a foreign state and it believes in the divine rights of the state?
Um, Crimea is  :o
Um Eastern Ukraine  :o
If we want to go back further, Poland  :o,  East Germany  :o, Czechoslavakia  :o, Bulgaria  :o, Romania  :o
& Hungary  :o

How did the incursions in Ukraine start?
What do you honestly believe would be the impact if Ukraine applied for an successfully joined NATO?

Why has Russia stated it will veto any call to force Assad to allow in an internationally independent investigative team?

Why is it that a country that is so  scrutinized by the free press the world over, you actually trust less than a country where

• Anti-Kremlin reporters have been killed or threatened for years
  
• They have deliberately withheld information or misled their citizens for decades
  
• Opposition politicians almost all end up in jail and a disproportionate amount are threatened (or worse).
  
• Doesn't tell their own doctors how to cure civilians they poisoned so as to keep the poison a state secret
  

Russia as a country lies, they consider it a weakness to be 'held to the truth'. Throughout the entire period from Stalin (and to be honest even Lenin) forward truth was a story you told the public to achieve a goal.

Why then is there version of events (which they will not help put pressure on Syria to allow independents to corroborate) the most likely truth?

It isn't.

[mateinone]

Btw finding a conspiracy theorist is not hard, for any conflict. It doesn't mean that because they have an idea how it happened that their version is correct, a very large (VERY VERY VERY large) percentage of these conspiracies are bunkum

Oh and where I say that Russia lies, I understand that all countries do, in fact in the interest of national security that must on occasion keep things out of the public and I don't have any issue.

What I mean by Russia lies, I mean they don't have a moral compass preventing them from just making up fabrications for what they consider best suits the situation and to keep information from people. It was the case all the way through communism and it still is.

Remember this is still a country where the freedom to spontaneously gather and protest is illegal. To protest something, you must get official approval.