Rd 10: Post Game Paradise!: Carlton vs Geelong

[bignic]

You must be retired like me, to have time to go to all that trouble and get those stats.

Anyway, bottom line is, I thought he should have kicked them. He didn't. We won. The number is in the frame. Correct weight has been declared. Now lets go have a drink.

[kruddler]

Not sure the purpose of this post Krud, honestly my comment on Malthouse wasn't specific to Kreuzer, Gibbs or anyone in particular. The post on Malthouse was on the intensity of playing football as a club, which they are absolutely doing under Bolton and absolutely were not under MM.
I never seen Carlton try less (even in our post Salary Cap breach years) then I did under MM.

I am simply happy to see Carlton trying and giving it all and Bolton is absolutely responsible for that.

All i am saying is that it was not ALL micks fault we sucked
and
It is not ALL Bolts doing that we are going ok.

As for haven't seen a worse side than under Mick? You've got a short memory.

I remember many a game under Pagan. 10 goal loss on average every 4 weeks. Including 1 against the tigers were we let them kick the first 13 goals of the match.

Credit where credit is due. But i think you have to give SOS a fair whack of credit for giving Bolts the players he has.

[mateinone]

Not a short memory at all Krud.
Mick took a team that was premiership favorite at one stage the year before.
A team that had Betts, Waite, Garlett, Yarran and Walker firing under Yarran and turned them into a completely noncompetitive unit. A team Mick claimed was ready to challenge, the board claimed was ready to challenge and to be honest a list most people thought was firing until a horrible injury run.

Under Pagan our list was pretty awful for a long time and things we were dreadful, particularly towards the end, I am more than aware of that and don't need reminding as if to suggest I am overlooking that period at all, I doubt any Carlton supporter over 25 could possible ever forget that period.

Now I am not into all the debates that I have no doubt happen on this site about Mick and whether he was the problem or not, so I don't know people's opinions.

But I have mine.

Through the last 20 years we have had a number of people have absolutely horrible impacts on Carlton.
John Elliot
Ian Collins
Dennis Pagan

Are just a few (Sticks and a few of his tight knit cronies also were more bad than good unfortunately)

But number one to me and by a very long margin... Is our previous coach.
He ruined what was a very competitive list, ruined the chance to challenge in Judd's final years, seen good players turn absolutely awful. He had zero idea how to play a game plan to the strengths of our team and oversaw the departure of our entire forward line.

Bolton (imo) is absolutely categorically the reason for this turnaround. The player ARE buying into his message and this team is playing much better than I have seen in a long time and better than it EVER played under Malthouse, including the Richmond final.

Watching the team for the first time since the days of Ratts, it felt like we had extra players on the ground, we got more players to all the contests, something I have rued forever when we are on the receiving end of that. Now you don't have to think this is down to Bolton and no down all the assistants play their part, but I am 100% sure that if this team was led by Malthouse right now we would be at best 1 win from the first 10 (which is about where most pundits would have had us at the start of the season) and that is based on the exposed form from the last few years.

As for SOS, I don't have any doubt he has been doing his job and a few of the young guys he has brought in have done well. But it is the re-invigoration of the older players (we still have an old list on average age) that really sees us 5-5, though yes I do think SOS has done a great job

[PaulP]

Not a short memory at all Krud.
Mick took a team that was premiership favorite at one stage the year before.
A team that had Betts, Waite, Garlett, Yarran and Walker firing under Yarran and turned them into a completely noncompetitive unit. A team Mick claimed was ready to challenge, the board claimed was ready to challenge and to be honest a list most people thought was firing until a horrible injury run.

Under Pagan our list was pretty awful for a long time and things we were dreadful, particularly towards the end, I am more than aware of that and don't need reminding as if to suggest I am overlooking that period at all, I doubt any Carlton supporter over 25 could possible ever forget that period.

Now I am not into all the debates that I have no doubt happen on this site about Mick and whether he was the problem or not, so I don't know people's opinions.

But I have mine.

Through the last 20 years we have had a number of people have absolutely horrible impacts on Carlton.
John Elliot
Ian Collins
Dennis Pagan

Are just a few (Sticks and a few of his tight knit cronies also were more bad than good unfortunately)

But number one to me and by a very long margin... Is our previous coach.
He ruined what was a very competitive list, ruined the chance to challenge in Judd's final years, seen good players turn absolutely awful. He had zero idea how to play a game plan to the strengths of our team and oversaw the departure of our entire forward line.

Bolton (imo) is absolutely categorically the reason for this turnaround. The player ARE buying into his message and this team is playing much better than I have seen in a long time and better than it EVER played under Malthouse, including the Richmond final.

Watching the team for the first time since the days of Ratts, it felt like we had extra players on the ground, we got more players to all the contests, something I have rued forever when we are on the receiving end of that. Now you don't have to think this is down to Bolton and no down all the assistants play their part, but I am 100% sure that if this team was led by Malthouse right now we would be at best 1 win from the first 10 (which is about where most pundits would have had us at the start of the season) and that is based on the exposed form from the last few years.

As for SOS, I don't have any doubt he has been doing his job and a few of the young guys he has brought in have done well. But it is the re-invigoration of the older players (we still have an old list on average age) that really sees us 5-5, though yes I do think SOS has done a great job

Bingo.

There's no doubt at all. 90% Mick's fault. 90% Bolton's credit.

[kruddler]

Simplistic view IMO, not in yours.

We move on

[Rational_Expectations]

Not a short memory at all Krud.
Mick took a team that was premiership favorite at one stage the year before.
A team that had Betts, Waite, Garlett, Yarran and Walker firing under Yarran and turned them into a completely noncompetitive unit. A team Mick claimed was ready to challenge, the board claimed was ready to challenge and to be honest a list most people thought was firing until a horrible injury run.

Under Pagan our list was pretty awful for a long time and things we were dreadful, particularly towards the end, I am more than aware of that and don't need reminding as if to suggest I am overlooking that period at all, I doubt any Carlton supporter over 25 could possible ever forget that period.

Now I am not into all the debates that I have no doubt happen on this site about Mick and whether he was the problem or not, so I don't know people's opinions.

But I have mine.

Through the last 20 years we have had a number of people have absolutely horrible impacts on Carlton.
John Elliot
Ian Collins
Dennis Pagan

Are just a few (Sticks and a few of his tight knit cronies also were more bad than good unfortunately)

But number one to me and by a very long margin... Is our previous coach.
He ruined what was a very competitive list, ruined the chance to challenge in Judd's final years, seen good players turn absolutely awful. He had zero idea how to play a game plan to the strengths of our team and oversaw the departure of our entire forward line.

Bolton (imo) is absolutely categorically the reason for this turnaround. The player ARE buying into his message and this team is playing much better than I have seen in a long time and better than it EVER played under Malthouse, including the Richmond final.

Watching the team for the first time since the days of Ratts, it felt like we had extra players on the ground, we got more players to all the contests, something I have rued forever when we are on the receiving end of that. Now you don't have to think this is down to Bolton and no down all the assistants play their part, but I am 100% sure that if this team was led by Malthouse right now we would be at best 1 win from the first 10 (which is about where most pundits would have had us at the start of the season) and that is based on the exposed form from the last few years.

As for SOS, I don't have any doubt he has been doing his job and a few of the young guys he has brought in have done well. But it is the re-invigoration of the older players (we still have an old list on average age) that really sees us 5-5, though yes I do think SOS has done a great job

Agreed. Malthouse was a complete and utter disaster.

[Baggers]

I hope we don't get into BB worshipping... just more Messiah stuff. First thing to love about BB is what he is bringing and has brought to the club - 'leadership dense and a ruthless desire to succeed at everything' culture, inclusiveness, discipline, reality, unity, all club community .... And I'm pretty confident that that is what he would want supporters to love/worship - the growth and development of our club, not individuals.

[jeza]

I hope we don't get into BB worshipping... just more Messiah stuff. First thing to love about BB is what he is bringing and has brought to the club - 'leadership dense and a ruthless desire to succeed at everything' culture, inclusiveness, discipline, reality, unity, all club community .... And I'm pretty confident that that is what he would want supporters to love/worship - the growth and development of our club, not individuals.

Saw him walking across the Yarra this morning... without a bridge

[DJC]

Not a short memory at all Krud.
Mick took a team that was premiership favorite at one stage the year before.
A team that had Betts, Waite, Garlett, Yarran and Walker firing under Yarran and turned them into a completely noncompetitive unit. A team Mick claimed was ready to challenge, the board claimed was ready to challenge and to be honest a list most people thought was firing until a horrible injury run.

Under Pagan our list was pretty awful for a long time and things we were dreadful, particularly towards the end, I am more than aware of that and don't need reminding as if to suggest I am overlooking that period at all, I doubt any Carlton supporter over 25 could possible ever forget that period.

Now I am not into all the debates that I have no doubt happen on this site about Mick and whether he was the problem or not, so I don't know people's opinions.

But I have mine.

Through the last 20 years we have had a number of people have absolutely horrible impacts on Carlton.
John Elliot
Ian Collins
Dennis Pagan

Are just a few (Sticks and a few of his tight knit cronies also were more bad than good unfortunately)

But number one to me and by a very long margin... Is our previous coach.
He ruined what was a very competitive list, ruined the chance to challenge in Judd's final years, seen good players turn absolutely awful. He had zero idea how to play a game plan to the strengths of our team and oversaw the departure of our entire forward line.

Bolton (imo) is absolutely categorically the reason for this turnaround. The player ARE buying into his message and this team is playing much better than I have seen in a long time and better than it EVER played under Malthouse, including the Richmond final.

Watching the team for the first time since the days of Ratts, it felt like we had extra players on the ground, we got more players to all the contests, something I have rued forever when we are on the receiving end of that. Now you don't have to think this is down to Bolton and no down all the assistants play their part, but I am 100% sure that if this team was led by Malthouse right now we would be at best 1 win from the first 10 (which is about where most pundits would have had us at the start of the season) and that is based on the exposed form from the last few years.

As for SOS, I don't have any doubt he has been doing his job and a few of the young guys he has brought in have done well. But it is the re-invigoration of the older players (we still have an old list on average age) that really sees us 5-5, though yes I do think SOS has done a great job

Nailed it MIO.  Fifteen of the blokes who took the field on Sunday were running around last year and all of them are playing better footy than they have for a while.  Bolton has made a huge difference, not only to the playing group but to the club as a whole.

I could go on a rant about the simplistic view that it was always the players' fault but I'd rather just celebrate the fact that we have a coach who knows what he is doing, is getting the best out of our list, and will not be satisfied until our best is even better.

[madbluboy]

Only takes one weak link in a side to make things turn to crap and we got rid of a few bludgers.