AFL Finals 2024 Carlton vs Brisbane in Brisbane

[DJC]

Cincotta or all of Durdin/Motlop/Fantasia ?
Cincotta or Cerra?

Its not about kids.

Cincotta had a purple patch where he shut down opposition guns and hit the scoreboard.  His form since then has been average. 

Hewett is probably a better option to run with Neale and Docherty or Williams will be keeping Zorko honest.  That leaves Cincotta on a half back flank but we’ve got Saad, Cowan, Newman and McGovern who can do that role as good or better.

Motlop, Fantasia and Durdin haven’t been in scintillating form but they’re all capable small forwards with the ability to have an impact.

Cerra is probably the weak link in terms of form and durability but his best is match winning.  If he makes the final 23, his poise and finish could be vital.

The bottom line is that it’s not too difficult to select a decent combination of 20 players.  It’s the last three that present a bit of a conundrum.

[kruddler]

reckon the week off played a bigger factor, but the point is that our talls vs theirs weren't the issue. 

You know what the issue is?  A small forward like who contributes 6 possession from 70% game time not hitting the scoreboard laying 0 tackles.  In itself not an issue, but when your other smalls have similar numbers, that's the problem.

That's why the rest struggle.  Not because of the talls who have typical tall stats.  You play a man down (sometimes 2) carrying a player like that.  Last week against the saints it happened with durdin, motlop, Fantasia and owies and we only lost by a couple of points because combined they gave us a 2 player game. 

That's the problem.  Not the talls.  We carry no more than others, and don't tell me the other teams have blistering run in their mids.  They all have a few one paced players who aren't quick but the only ones who have non contributors end up putting in a performance like port did tonight.

It's the same thing but we are coming at it from different directions.

I agree with you about the non contributing smalls, said as much already in this thread.

And I've expanded on the talls vs smalls debate.
I often use shorthand descriptions because I've said it enough times on here that people are sick of it, but still some people miss the overall point.

It's about pressure. Tall/small or otherwise.
As a general rule, talls don't provide it and smalls do.
But team balance is not that simple. That's why I included slower mids. To emphasise why we can't play too tall.
That's why I'm always talking about our team and our list because it doesn't apply to others.
Others don't have cripps and Kennedy in their midfield etc.

That's why I'd prefer to bring in cincotta over one of our smalls.
He isn't as fast as those smalls, but provides more pressure.
We want to maximise our pressure with our selections.
You will get players (usually talls) who lack pressure. Young and Pittonet are obvious ones, but it's a sliding scale from there.
Our small forwards can provide pressure but don't do it enough.....and also don't do enough when we have the ball, which is the other side of it. Cincotta does both sides imo and why he should be prioritised.

Look I'd like nothing more that fantasia, durdin, motlop to kick 10 between them and rack up 50 touches. History suggests that's its more like 2-3 and about 15-20 though.

If nothing else.....they are due....

[DJC]

Lord, Binns, Moir can because they are fit and in form. Not as if we are playing 23 of those types. They would blend in alot better with the others we have in than non match fit players. No risks needed. Just a fit football team. Our slump started playing half fit, out of form bigger names as you well know. Right now, it is panic button selection.

I prefer Cincotta, Lord, Binns and Moir to Durdin, Motlop and Fantasia and a half fit Cerra.

Lord has done OK but it’s a stretch to say that Cincotta, Binns and Moir are in form.  They have been adequate but, with players coming back from injury, they are easily and quite rightly replaced by better options.

[kruddler]

The bottom line is that it’s not too difficult to select a decent combination of 20 players.  It’s the last three that present a bit of a conundrum.

...and that's where the difference comes from and that's why that is what we are debating.

[kruddler]

For the record. Cincotta averages .5 goals a game.
...and is playing a negating role more often than not, sometimes from the backline.

Fantasia averages 0.57 goals.
Durdin 0.7.

We lose nothing by playing him instead of one of our other small forwards imo.

[DJC]

For the record. Cincotta averages .5 goals a game.
...and is playing a negating role more often than not, sometimes from the backline.

Fantasia averages 0.57 goals.
Durdin 0.7.

We lose nothing by playing him instead of one of our other small forwards imo.

In fact, we lose a hell of a lot playing Cincotta as a forward unless he has a shut down role on an opposition forward.  However, Williams is better in that role and Docherty would be too, if that is the task he is set.

Cincotta should come into the team if Cerra or McGovern but he can’t be reinvented as a small forward or link up player.  That’s not his bag.

[kruddler]

In fact, we lose a hell of a lot playing Cincotta as a forward unless he has a shut down role on an opposition forward.  However, Williams is better in that role and Docherty would be too, if that is the task he is set.

Cincotta should come into the team if Cerra or McGovern but he can’t be reinvented as a small forward or link up player.  That’s not his bag.

Lose a hell of a lot?

Like what exactly?

It's not scoring.
It's not possessions.
It's not discipline.
It's not versatility.

[DJC]

Lose a hell of a lot?

Like what exactly?

It's not scoring.
It's not possessions.
It's not discipline.
It's not versatility.

Forget about the statistics.  It's about being able to play the position and fulfil the role.  Cincotta is primarily a defender who has shown that he can carry out a run with role on opposition mids or playmakers.  As often happens with those roles, his opponents are intent on getting away form him and don't defend.  He has been opportunistic enough to punish them on the score board in five games this season.

Cincotta doesn't have the the small forward's skill set and he doesn't apply forward pressure, put blocks on for our leading forwards or crumb the ball when it comes to the ground as well as they do.  He also doesn't have the ability to provide the continuous link up between our forwards and defenders that is Fantasia's role.  Zac Williams has the defensive half forward role that Cincotta held down for a couple of games and he has proved to be more effective, and more versatile.

Unless there's a run with role or a vacant spot for a medium defender, Cincotta misses out.

[kruddler]

Forget about the statistics.  It's about being able to play the position and fulfil the role.  Cincotta is primarily a defender who has shown that he can carry out a run with role on opposition mids or playmakers.  As often happens with those roles, his opponents are intent on getting away form him and don't defend.  He has been opportunistic enough to punish them on the score board in five games this season.

Cincotta doesn't have the the small forward's skill set and he doesn't apply forward pressure, put blocks on for our leading forwards or crumb the ball when it comes to the ground as well as they do.  He also doesn't have the ability to provide the continuous link up between our forwards and defenders that is Fantasia's role.  Zac Williams has the defensive half forward role that Cincotta held down for a couple of games and he has proved to be more effective, and more versatile.

Unless there's a run with role or a vacant spot for a medium defender, Cincotta misses out.

We have 4 small forwards picked. Williams, motlop, durdin and fantasia. We don't need all 4.

Cincotta doesn't have to play as a small forward. His output matches a small.forward though.

Play Elijah there if you want. Whoever.
Our small forwards don't do the things small forwards are supposed to do like youve listed there, this is the problem to begin with. We are carrying too many passengers there.

Why have we subbed in or out a small forward.
Why have we subbed in or out a small.foreard so often this year.
Are we done with the pressure they've been applying?
Are we done with the blocking and crumbing required? Etc
Is it because of injuries?
No, it's because they haven't been good enough for long enough and have gone missing largely. So they are NOT performing the role that they should.
Now we have 4.

This game is probably the best game for small forwards to play in all year. We have 2x 200cm Giants up forward who will either mark it or bring the ball to ground. If our smalls don't dominate this game, they never will.
Let's see.

[madbluboy]

I thought Cincotta would have tagged Zorko, obviously Williams has that role now.