AFL Finals 2024 Carlton vs Brisbane in Brisbane

[Gointocarlton]

Voss is all smiles, humour and reasonableness until you get into a competition with him.

He would have been an animal to play against. Rarely beaten for long periods of time such was the competitiveness. Blokes like Doull went about it quietly, Vossy was loud and in your face.

[tonyo]

Voss is all smiles, humour and reasonableness until you get into a competition with him.

Supposedly responsible for the greatest on-the-mark sledge of all time - brother Brett, playing for St Kilda, was lining up for goal and Vossy was on the mark.  As he was about to kick, Vossy yelled 'my dad f***ed your mum last night!'

;D  

[LP]

Supposedly responsible for the greatest on-the-mark sledge of all time - brother Brett, playing for St Kilda, was lining up for goal and Vossy was on the mark.  As he was about to kick, Vossy yelled 'my dad f***ed your mum last night!'

That's about as brutal as they get!

[Thryleon]

The reason i bring up 'the stats sheet' is because i disagree with peoples opinions on how 'good' Fantasia is, has been, ever will be.

We can get into a "No he's not" vs "Yes he is" argument,
OR
I can bring something new to the table.

I don't need stats to form an opinion.
I use stats to back up my opinion.

Motlop being 'garbage' all season is funny.
I did a like for like comparison of averages between Motlop and Fantasia and Motlop has him covered in almost every single stat.....and there is like 40 stats.
So if Motlop is garbage, what is the level below garbage because thats where Fantasia sits.

On the basis of this season, Fantasia has outperformed durdin and motlop.  That should mean next week, he's the one most likely in.

Moir is young, but happy to have him play, provided we don't need heavy lifting.

Fact is, that Fantasia has played more like durdin did against the Eagles, and Motlop hasn't really been one to work up the field.  That's fine, but stats generally tell you what a bloke does on the ball.  Not what he does off it.  It doesn't tell you what runs they make that aren't honoured, what options they take when in possession (I.e. picking off a dangerous kick) or when impacting the game did they do it when we had the ascendency or didn't.  Fantasia input on Sunday was when we weren't on top but cripps was doing a mountain of work and looking for blokes to come with him.  Fantasia chimed in.  Motlop and durdins inputs happened when we were trying to get back in front and more of the others came back into the game.

Everyone provided something.  At the time Fantasia did more when we needed it and IMHO I think anyone playing motlops role would likely have given us the same as he did.

That's why if I was choosing spot 23 next week and I had to toss up between motlop and Fantasia, provided owies was already in (runs on the board) I'd choose Fantasia.

On capability and future output you could argue any of them aside from Fantasia but given both of their last seasons (Fantasia wasn't fit, motlop "was") motlop has had the more dissapointing season.  That's ok.  We aren't talking list spots which serves only to muddy the argument, but Fantasia has played  better and his presence in the team has correlated with generally better team performance. 

[kruddler]

On the basis of this season, Fantasia has outperformed durdin and motlop. 

An opinion.

An unbiased view. Click the below for head to head comparison.
You will need to change from 'career' to '2024...'
You can change the area the stats look at, scoring/defence/possessions etc.
Fantasia v Motlop

Motlop has him covered.

Fantasia is 'above average' in just 1 stat. Goal assists.
Fantasia is 'below average' or 'average' in every other stat....and there is over 40 of them.

Motlop is 'above average' in 10 stats. Some better than others.
Motlop is 'below average' or 'average' in the rest.

If you add Goal assists and goals together, they both average 1.5 goal (or goal assists) a game, so they generate the same amount of scoring each. Just so happens that Fantasia gets more assists and Motlop gets more goals, but they are equivalent.

People talk about Fantasias pressure as to why he is in the side.
Motlop has him beaten in all pressure stat averages this year, Spoils, tackles, TI50, pressure acts (although Fantasia has more defensive half pressure acts, he has less pressure acts overall)

[DJC]

Supposedly responsible for the greatest on-the-mark sledge of all time - brother Brett, playing for St Kilda, was lining up for goal and Vossy was on the mark.  As he was about to kick, Vossy yelled 'my dad f***ed your mum last night!'

;D

I think Allen Jakovich used that line when he played on brother Glenn,

[Thryleon]

An opinion.

An unbiased view. Click the below for head to head comparison.
You will need to change from 'career' to '2024...'
You can change the area the stats look at, scoring/defence/possessions etc.
Fantasia v Motlop

Motlop has him covered.

Fantasia is 'above average' in just 1 stat. Goal assists.
Fantasia is 'below average' or 'average' in every other stat....and there is over 40 of them.

Motlop is 'above average' in 10 stats. Some better than others.
Motlop is 'below average' or 'average' in the rest.

If you add Goal assists and goals together, they both average 1.5 goal (or goal assists) a game, so they generate the same amount of scoring each. Just so happens that Fantasia gets more assists and Motlop gets more goals, but they are equivalent.

People talk about Fantasias pressure as to why he is in the side.
Motlop has him beaten in all pressure stat averages this year, Spoils, tackles, TI50, pressure acts (although Fantasia has more defensive half pressure acts, he has less pressure acts overall)

nope.  I watch footy.  I've seen their output.  I've seen their lack of output. 

Like I said, no two kicks are the same.  No two handballs the same.  No two goals are the same.


Motlop has played 6 games.  6.  How many of them as sub? 

Fantasia has played 14.  Been subbed off and played as sub in multiple.

Go average out their time on ground percentages and compare their stats again.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_p...2=S&type=A



Here's a site that will do it for you.  The ones in bold under orazios side tell you which was the greater number.

Both off a low base, but one has done more than the other off less average game time per game.

[kruddler]

nope.  I watch footy.  I've seen their output.  I've seen their lack of output. 

Like I said, no two kicks are the same.  No two handballs the same.  No two goals are the same.


Motlop has played 6 games.  6.  How many of them as sub? 

Fantasia has played 14.  Been subbed off and played as sub in multiple.

Go average out their time on ground percentages and compare their stats again.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_p...2=S&type=A



Here's a site that will do it for you.  The ones in bold under orazios side tell you which was the greater number.

Both off a low base, but one has done more than the other off less average game time per game.

I know about footywire and was going to post the exact same thing but decided against it.
Mainly for a couple reasons.
1. AFL site compares against all AFL players playing similar positions. That is, all our small forwards are essentially underperforming.
2. Given how equal or equally bad they are, you should ALWAYS go the younger option as that is where the upside is.

Also ask why Fantasia has lower game time. He has been used as the sub, and he has been subbed out because he has been poor. Not sure you want to use that in a positive light.
But 'watching football' and 'knowing their (lack of) output', you're aware of that already.

[Thryleon]

I know about footywire and was going to post the exact same thing but decided against it.
Mainly for a couple reasons.
1. AFL site compares against all AFL players playing similar positions. That is, all our small forwards are essentially underperforming.
2. Given how equal or equally bad they are, you should ALWAYS go the younger option as that is where the upside is.

Also ask why Fantasia has lower game time. He has been used as the sub, and he has been subbed out because he has been poor. Not sure you want to use that in a positive light.
But 'watching football' and 'knowing their (lack of) output', you're aware of that already.

statistically speaking who had the better season off less game time?

Regarding subs and game time I'll simply point out that motlop didn't get near the seniors until the players were well and truly breaking down, and maybe just maybe, stats aren't actually supporting your opinion without adding age as a subjective vote splitter.  The fact is, the stats have highlighted that orazio has been better than you thought, even though both are "below average".

[kruddler]

statistically speaking who had the better season off less game time?

Regarding subs and game time I'll simply point out that motlop didn't get near the seniors until the players were well and truly breaking down, and maybe just maybe, stats aren't actually supporting your opinion without adding age as a subjective vote splitter.  The fact is, the stats have highlighted that orazio has been better than you thought, even though both are "below average".

No he hasn't been better than i thought. He has been 'below average'. Which when you recruit a 28yo, is not good enough.
Thats why he has been used subbed off 4 times this year...and started sub once.
Apparantly he played 'great' this week though.
He had 10 touches.
He had 5 turnovers.
But lets celebrate how great he was by showing a 1minute highlights clip.....which shows the same highlights from 4 different angles to pad out that 1 minute.

Not buying it.