AFL 2023 Preliminary Final Carlton vs Brisbane Post Game Prognostications

[Sub-Zero]

Yep.
I see that tall Durds has been given another contract and was an emergency for one of our finals... reckon he and Young will be competing for the same spot during pre season training.

Hopefully one or even both stand up and be noticed. I made mention of Motlop and Fogarty having disappointing games, but we were killed in the clearances and this was a big reason why they got back into the game, the two lacked opportunities to impact. Obviously Daniher and Hipwood were given too many opportunities for our gun Weitering to deal with. 

[Sub-Zero]

Reckon tall Durds is like that fire extinguisher you have at home or work you walk past everyday and hope you never have to use....for me he is there to replace one player only in the main and thats Jacob Weitering.

You're probably right Elwood, in any case it's still very important, no matter what the form of him or Young, to have these guys on the list, for the purpose that was badly missing for a lot of the year and what exposed us against Brisbane. We will be too far into the draft to get a developing tall KPD imo, hence tall Durdin is on our list as an insurance policy.

[laj]

I’m not sure that Pitto and the King would be selected ahead of Cox and Cameron but Collingwood won the premiership with two genuine, lumbering rucks and two key forwards.  Admittedly, one of the key forwards was a bit of a decoy because their first choice KPF was injured.

Of course, both of Collingwood’s rucks are a threat when they go forward.  Neither managed a goal in the GF, but they demand a decent defender.

The idea that we’re unbalanced with two rucks and two tall forwards doesn’t stack up, particularly since the alternative is two tall forwards, one ruck and a third tall forward/undersized ruck.

That’s not to say that Brisbane model - one outstanding ruckman backed up by one of their two tall forwards - isn’t effective.  It worked quite well against us, but there were other factors at play.  However, it wasn’t effective against Collingwood.

I don’t understand the reasoning behind some of our team selections but I do understand that the reasoning behind those decisions is based on more and much better information than I have, as well as far superior footy understanding and knowledge.  Games of footy aren’t lost by the MC.  They’re lost because the players aren’t good enough or they’re not at their best, or the gameplan is flawed or not executed well enough.

Flags have been won in many different ways. 2017 Richmond won with one key forward and a small forward line, then in 2019 they won with Lynch, Riewoldt, Nankervis and Soldo. 2020 they did it with one ruck and a pinch-hitter. 2018 the Eagles won with Vardy, Lycett, Kennedy and Darling, Melbourne won with Gawn, Jackson, McDonald and Brown, 2022, Jackson was very proficient forward. 2022 Geelong went with Stanley, a part-timer ruck in Blicavs and as well as Hawkins and Cameron. Looks like you can win it with many different combinations.

If you go in with an one extra tall, or one extra small probably it isn't going to make alot of difference. Most important thing to me is that at least one ruck can play well around the ground and go forward and kick a goal. Can't have two centre bounce rucks that can't do anything else. That's where you come unbalanced, like essentially being like a player down. If you have one that can take marks around the ground and kick a goal, great, play 2 rucks. If you have just 2 plain centre bounce rucks that can't do much else then you need to pick a pinch hitter. It's why Levi, for all his faults is a very handy footballer. Luke Jackson probably a better version.

[Thryleon]

Flags have been won in many different ways. 2017 Richmond won with one key forward and a small forward line, then in 2019 they won with Lynch, Riewoldt, Nankervis and Soldo. 2020 they did it with one ruck and a pinch-hitter. 2018 the Eagles won with Vardy, Lycett, Kennedy and Darling, Melbourne won with Gawn, Jackson, McDonald and Brown, 2022, Jackson was very proficient forward. 2022 Geelong went with Stanley, a part-timer ruck in Blicavs and as well as Hawkins and Cameron. Looks like you can win it with many different combinations.

If you go in with an one extra tall, or one extra small probably it isn't going to make alot of difference. Most important thing to me is that at least one ruck can play well around the ground and go forward and kick a goal. Can't have two centre bounce rucks that can't do anything else. That's where you come unbalanced, like essentially being like a player down. If you have one that can take marks around the ground and kick a goal, great, play 2 rucks. If you have just 2 plain centre bounce rucks that can't do much else then you need to pick a pinch hitter. It's why Levi, for all his faults is a very handy footballer. Luke Jackson probably a better version.

I said it before.

In a grand final like the one we saw, Jarrod Berry's 2 50 metre penalty brain fades had more to do with the result than any other factor.

Even so, had Bailey not played advantage in that last minute and a half of bedlam, and Brisbane kicked another goal the result flips, we talk about a brisbane premiership, and how Collingwoods decision to play Billy Frampton as a purely defensive forward cost them the game.

Or, Nathan Murphy's concussion becomes the difference.

The match was won and lost in so many little moments of people switching off at the wrong time, that team balance being "the reason" is completely irrelevant.

[LP]

The match was won and lost in so many little moments of people switching off at the wrong time, that team balance being "the reason" is completely irrelevant.

In fairness MC can have an impact, if we go back to the Prelim and watch for those little moments, when Martin and Motlop fly and we've nobody crumbing, where was Owies and Cunningham at the fall of the ball?

That's a type of team balance issue, but it's not the only reason for falling at the hurdle.

Retrospectively we can never know definitively if what the MC's did were positives or negatives, all we have are the vents on the day and a bunch of what could have been observations.

[PaulP]

Managing moments is all the rage with coaches at the moment. I try and watch as many press conferences as I can, and I can't recall a coach saying they lost because they lacked balance. Undoubtedly there are competing parameters that need to be complimentary in some fashion (tall v small, size and strength v pace, endurance v burst power, extractor v distributor etc.), but I'd guess it's one ball among many that coaches need to juggle.

[DJC]

Flags have been won in many different ways. 2017 Richmond won with one key forward and a small forward line, then in 2019 they won with Lynch, Riewoldt, Nankervis and Soldo. 2020 they did it with one ruck and a pinch-hitter. 2018 the Eagles won with Vardy, Lycett, Kennedy and Darling, Melbourne won with Gawn, Jackson, McDonald and Brown, 2022, Jackson was very proficient forward. 2022 Geelong went with Stanley, a part-timer ruck in Blicavs and as well as Hawkins and Cameron. Looks like you can win it with many different combinations.

If you go in with an one extra tall, or one extra small probably it isn't going to make alot of difference. Most important thing to me is that at least one ruck can play well around the ground and go forward and kick a goal. Can't have two centre bounce rucks that can't do anything else. That's where you come unbalanced, like essentially being like a player down. If you have one that can take marks around the ground and kick a goal, great, play 2 rucks. If you have just 2 plain centre bounce rucks that can't do much else then you need to pick a pinch hitter. It's why Levi, for all his faults is a very handy footballer. Luke Jackson probably a better version.

Yes, there's no hard and fast rule about ruck/forward combinations, but your point about not going with two one-dimensional rucks is pretty close to being a rule.  I guess the same could be said about going with two very good around the ground rucks when neither can play the support/tall forward role.

Pitto and the King, when they're on, make a formidable combination.  They weren't really on against McInerney but Cox and Cameron were on in the GF and limited McInerney's influence.

Levi will be preparing for his third season since we announced his retirement  : 

[LP]

Flags have been won in many different ways. 2017 Richmond won with one key forward and a small forward line, then in 2019 they won with Lynch, Riewoldt, Nankervis and Soldo. 2020 they did it with one ruck and a pinch-hitter. 2018 the Eagles won with Vardy, Lycett, Kennedy and Darling, Melbourne won with Gawn, Jackson, McDonald and Brown, 2022, Jackson was very proficient forward. 2022 Geelong went with Stanley, a part-timer ruck in Blicavs and as well as Hawkins and Cameron. Looks like you can win it with many different combinations.

Across that timeframe the rules have changed multiple times, as has the way the umpires are directed to interpret them!

A good example is after our game against the Handbaggers early this season, Scott bitched and moaned about his poor poor injured ruck and damaged Mid being beaten up by the high jumping TDK raising his knee and not being penalised. In the following weeks, TDK was almost umpired out of the game, something we should have been whispering in SDKs ear as a reminder about the behaviour of his coach! It was Scott's choice to play an injured/recovering ruck and his premier midfielder in the ruck, why should anyone else be penalised. He put Blicavs and Stanley to the sword to save Cameron, Hawkins and others.

No official rule was changed, but the way the game was played and umpired changed after that weekend!

We'd get no sympathy if we stupidly played Harry or Cripps in the ruck and a Nankervis or Darcy type smashed them up, yet that is what some fans want! To me it's stupidity to put premium players at greater physical risk, and worse still to toy with their form by playing them out of position just to create a spot for some other piecewise players.

That sort of thing makes it very hard to compare seasons and tactics but it does tell us one thing, and that is anyone who thinks they have the right way or the only solution is surely kidding themselves!

[laj]

I said it before.

In a grand final like the one we saw, Jarrod Berry's 2 50 metre penalty brain fades had more to do with the result than any other factor.

Even so, had Bailey not played advantage in that last minute and a half of bedlam, and Brisbane kicked another goal the result flips, we talk about a brisbane premiership, and how Collingwoods decision to play Billy Frampton as a purely defensive forward cost them the game.

Or, Nathan Murphy's concussion becomes the difference.

The match was won and lost in so many little moments of people switching off at the wrong time, that team balance being "the reason" is completely irrelevant.

Yes, Bonehead Berry's brain fade was as costly as it get. Can even go back to the QF and Maynard's hit on Brayshaw cost Melbourne the game. If it wasn't for the hit putting Brayshaw out of the game the Pies may well have been out week 2.

[LP]

Yes, Bonehead Berry's brain fade was as costly as it get. Can even go back to the QF and Maynard's hit on Brayshaw cost Melbourne the game. If it wasn't for the hit putting Brayshaw out of the game the Pies may well have been out week 2.

Let's not forget the impact of the umpiring non-decisions that robbed GWS, nothing players can do to manage those moments!

Ultimately, the Filth took their opportunities no matter how they were delivered, they might be lucky but hard work also tends to make you lucky!