The rise.... and RISE of Marc Pittonet

[Lods]

Do you think they are setting up incorrectly ?

Not incorrectly, but I imagine the 'focus' of the mid-fielders would be different if Pittonet was rucking as opposed to Jack.
With Pittonet there would be the expectation of a win or break even on the actual tap.
With Jack the expectation would be of a loss or break even on the tap,  but more likely a loss.

So if Pittonet is rucking they would be looking to where the tap would be directed.
The eyes of the midfield would be on Pittonet.

With Jack rucking it would be to where the oppostition ruckman would direct it,
where the opposition mid-fielders were, and how to combat that first possession.

That's probably one area where rucking Jack is actually a plus because he can quickly transition into an extra-midfielder in a defensive or attacking role.

[LP]

The problem with trying to compare non-rucking duties of a ruckmen is you are not comparing apples with apples anymore.
How long does a ruck spend forward, back or in the ruck.
How much TOG does each ruck have overall on top of that.

That's exactly the point, rucks that tap alone are next to useless in the ever changing landscape of a game, because the drawback is what they are not involved in.

The game has gone beyond the abilities of a pure solo stoppage ruck, even The Aints with Ross Lyon's negative emphasis now concede that which is why they are hunting for a 2nd ruck.

Of course there will always be games that are exceptions, but nobody should be stupid enough to put all their eggs in one basket 24x7!

[LP]

So if TDK cannot perform to Pittonets standard in the ruck
and
Cannot perform to Jacks standard around the ground.....and arguably does not outperform Jack in the ruck either.

Then why are we playing him? Because we HOPE he gets better??

You keep making he same mistake, it's your narrow definition of performing in the ruck that is your folly, when you make those mistakes it exposes your perceptions which appear to contradict what you write. In philosophy they would assert you lack referentially integrity.

As for TDK's best games, they already match SoJ, but TDK is not yet consistent, given a similar number of games TDK is already on a trajectory that puts him way beyond the capabilities of SoJ, there is no comparison long term.

We've just signed Pitto for four years, he's the foundation, TDK or another ultra mobile ruck like him is the complimentary machinery that sits on it, SoJ or Young are not!

There is another very simple question that can be posed to determine if we have a null hypothesis, head to head in a combative scenario, if we become like the Romans and set the three of them a fight to the death, survival of the fittest, last man of earth, overhead, in mobility, pace, agility, potential and ruck work, do Young and SoJ have TDK covered?

[ElwoodBlues1]

What has TDK done to deserve a massive contract?. It's all based on hype, promise and him being prettier to watch because he is the athletic prototype tall player.
His stats are no better than a hacker like Bailey Williams from WC...
I prefer Nick Bryan from Essendon who I think is a bargain for any club wanting  a 2nd ruckman.
We would have to be crazy to be paying TDK big dollars on what he has delivered and no way would I be paying on promise alone.
Pittonet gives you competitive bang for buck and as Nankervis has shown that's good enough to be a premiership ruckman.
Clubs who pay massive money for rucks are crazy...it's an over rated position and the money should be spent on the mids who do the real hard work at the coalface.

[LP]

Pittonet gives you competitive bang for buck and as Nankervis has shown that's good enough to be a premiership ruckman.

Nthmond and Nankervis is not a valid comparison, it that happened under very different game day rules, implementations and circumstances.

Actually, CheatsFC is quite a good example of where we should be heading, given they tend to ruck Phillips or another (Their version of Pitto) with Draper as the relief ruck. That's the CheatsFC version of Gawn / Jackson, not that Phillips is in the Gawn league, but Phillips is not far off being a Pitto.

[northernblue]

Phillips isn't the same skinny guy who played for us and is in my opinion only just becoming worthy of drafting/trading in.

[LP]

Phillips isn't the same skinny guy who played for us and is in my opinion only just becoming worthy of drafting/trading in.

Despite our loss to CheatsFC, it wasn't due to TDK not covering Phillips and Draper, and they also had Wright.

CheatsFC tried to leverage TDK as our only ruck, but apparently that is not something worth crediting him with! :o

[img width=550]https://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5066.0;attach=1357[/img]

[ElwoodBlues1]

Nthmond and Nankervis is not a valid comparison, it that happened under very different game day rules, implementations and circumstances.

Actually, CheatsFC is quite a good example of where we should be heading, given they tend to ruck Phillips or another (Their version of Pitto) with Draper as the relief ruck. That's the CheatsFC version of Gawn / Jackson, not that Phillips is in the Gawn league, but Phillips is not far off being a Pitto.

Nankervis was a backup ruck who played mainly twos footy just like Pittonet.
He was surplus and took his opportunity just like Pittonet has, nothing fancy about either and both are there to compete and put their big frames in the contest and create space for their midfields. Game has not  changed that much to understand what they do fundamentally well is what is required now...Rhys Stanley another journeyman competitor premiership ruckman but I'm not paying him 800k a year...
Cameron  is another Swans discard doing the job on the cheap at Collingwood, nothing flash but just competes and knows his role.
Those mature been around the game for a  while types are exactly what wins premierships, you look at the old  Hawthorn with Ceglar and Hale...journeyman types who competed and did a role. Ruckman are not where you spend big dollars or waste early picks.
You let someone else develop them and then you steal them from teams who have a surplus....

[Gointocarlton]

Nankervis was a backup ruck who played mainly twos footy just like Pittonet.
He was surplus and took his opportunity just like Pittonet has, nothing fancy about either and both are there to compete and put their big frames in the contest and create space for their midfields. Game has not  changed that much to understand what they do fundamentally well is what is required now...Rhys Stanley another journeyman competitor premiership ruckman but I'm not paying him 800k a year...
Cameron at Collingwood is another Swans discard doing the job on the cheap at Collingwood, nothing flash but just competes and knows his role.
Those mature been around the game for a  while types are exactly what wins premierships, you look at the old  Hawthorn with Ceglar and Hale...journeyman types who competed and did a role. Ruckman are not where you spend big dollars or waste early picks.
You let someone else develop them and then you steal them from teams who have a surplus....

Premiership teams are made up of a handful of superstars/champions and lots of workers/role players. Coll or PA will win the flag for that very reason.

[madbluboy]

Nankervis is a much better footballer than Pittonet.