The rise.... and RISE of Marc Pittonet

[cookie2]

Maybe it's just me but from what I've seen of him, despite his size, Harry is not really a very physical player. He comes off second best quite often in the physical clashes and in the process often looks to get hurt and takes a while to recover? I also get the distinct impression that he does not relish ruck work and consequently we seem to minimize the time he spends there. I don't mean to have a go at him but that's just the impression he creates for me.

[LP]

Maybe it's just me but from what I've seen of him, despite his size, Harry is not really a very physical player. He comes off second best quite often in the physical clashes and in the process often looks to get hurt and takes a while to recover? I also get the distinct impression that he does not relish ruck work and consequently we seem to minimize the time he spends there. I don't mean to have a go at him but that's just the impression he creates for me.

Agreed, it stands out when guys like Young and Harry are forced to ruck, they go into their shell.

The last thing we need is to put a Coleman medallist to the sword just to save 10% bench time for a single role. The 10% saving gets distributed across all the other interchanges, delivering on average about 10 extra seconds a piece, so I'd assert the impact to the bench and rotations  of running one or two rucks is greatly over-stated!

[kruddler]

Agreed, it stands out when guys like Young and Harry are forced to ruck, they go into their shell.

The last thing we need is to put a Coleman medallist to the sword just to save 10% bench time for a single role. The 10% saving gets distributed across all the other interchanges, delivering on average about 10 extra seconds a piece, so I'd assert the impact to the bench and rotations  of running one or two rucks is greatly over-stated!

I'm not sure how you end up with 10%, or 10 seconds.
I call BS

[LP]

I'm not sure how you end up with 10%, or 10 seconds.
I call BS

You're not think straight, do the math the available bench minutes do not change whether we run 1 or 2 rucks, the small percentage of extra time 1 ruck might stay on the field doesn't make much difference to the rest of the bench at all, it's a smokescreen, a misdirection, because the rucks are resting in the pockets, they come off the ground when they finish a rotation no matter who does it! :o

The only gain is that perhaps the solo ruck spends less time on the bench, and that few minutes of less time on the bench get added to the allocation for all other players. It doesn't necessarily mean there will be more rotations available either, because we would need to the ruck to stay on the ground when the ruck rotation ends for that to happen, and they don't!

There is always 4 on the bench, if you make a 10% change in ground time of one player the reduced bench time gets distributed across all other rotations. How many a game, 70 rotations on average?

The deception in your assertion is to imply when we have Pitto solo the others who have a part in 2nd ruck rotations won't come off the ground, it's a furphy!

I'd much rather Pitto and TDK resting on the bench and coming in fresh, than have Young, Harry or SoJ coming into the ruck rested and delivering a B Grade result, maybe even a D Grade result.

In any case, Pitto is the player who mostly single role, TDK can ruck before rotating forward to give Harry or Charlie a chop out, and then come off.

[ElwoodBlues1]

Maybe it's just me but from what I've seen of him, despite his size, Harry is not really a very physical player. He comes off second best quite often in the physical clashes and in the process often looks to get hurt and takes a while to recover? I also get the distinct impression that he does not relish ruck work and consequently we seem to minimize the time he spends there. I don't mean to have a go at him but that's just the impression he creates for me.

Harry needs to be less delicate and more imposing...Fagan seems to have improved Daniher in this area and its helped his game.

[kruddler]

You're not think straight, do the math the available bench minutes do not change whether we run 1 or 2 rucks, the small percentage of extra time 1 ruck might stay on the field doesn't make much difference to the rest of the bench at all, it's a smokescreen, a misdirection, because the rucks are resting in the pockets, they come off the ground when they finish a rotation no matter who does it! :o

The only gain is that perhaps the solo ruck spends less time on the bench, and that few minutes of less time on the bench get added to the allocation for all other players. It doesn't necessarily mean there will be more rotations available either, because we would need to the ruck to stay on the ground when the ruck rotation ends for that to happen, and they don't!

There is always 4 on the bench, if you make a 10% change in ground time of one player the reduced bench time gets distributed across all other rotations. How many a game, 70 rotations on average?

The deception in your assertion is to imply when we have Pitto solo the others who have a part in 2nd ruck rotations won't come off the ground, it's a furphy!

I'd much rather Pitto and TDK resting on the bench and coming in fresh, than have Young, Harry or SoJ coming into the ruck rested and delivering a B Grade result, maybe even a D Grade result.

In any case, Pitto is the player who mostly single role, TDK can ruck before rotating forward to give Harry or Charlie a chop out, and then come off.

I don't need to do the math. The math is already done. You are not looking at it correctly.

When 2 rucks play, their individual TOG decreases. Thus, more time on the bench.
When a part time ruck plays, the minutes they play do not decrease, be that Jack or Young. They are all 80-90%+ TOG or more whether they ruck of not. Because THEY can rest in the pocket while they play backup ruck rather than on the bench.
So not only does that allow more time on the bench for others, it allows a whole other player (in place of that 2nd ruck) because the backup ruck comes from someone who is already in the side.

[LP]

I don't need to do the math. The math is already done. You are not looking at it correctly.

When 2 rucks play, their individual TOG decreases. Thus, more time on the bench.
When a part time ruck plays, the minutes they play do not decrease, be that Jack or Young. They are all 80-90%+ TOG or more whether they ruck of not. Because THEY can rest in the pocket while they play backup ruck rather than on the bench.

Why not just rest TDK in the pocket and no need SoJ or Young at all, 100% saving! ;D

No matter how you spin this, the Pitto  / TDK duality trumps the whoever you chose 1st with those 3rd, 4th or even 5th choice option, find another job for the likes of SoJ and Young that they won't feck up, don't spread their pain across other critical roles just to create a spot!

The good thing is whoever should be highly motivated, because I'd assert that a bad outcome this weekend will be just about the nail in the coffin for whoever 2nd rucks, SoJ Boosters should be careful about what they ask for!

PS; This has nothing to do with TDK staying or going, even if he goes SoJ or Young are still not the answer, they live and die by other outcomes.

[kruddler]

Why not just rest TDK in the pocket and no need SoJ or Young at all, 100% saving! ;D

No matter how you spin this, the Pitto  / TDK duality trumps the whoever you chose 1st with those 3rd, 4th or even 5th choice option, find another job for the likes of SoJ and Young that they won't feck up, don't spread their pain across other critical roles just to create a spot!

The good thing is whoever should be highly motivated, because I'd assert that a bad outcome this weekend will be just about the nail in the coffin for whoever 2nd rucks, SoJ Boosters should be careful about what they ask for!

PS; This has nothing to do with TDK staying or going, even if he goes SoJ or Young are still not the answer, they live and die by other outcomes.

We have tried to rest TDK forward, and ball gets cleared pretty easily because the opposition have 4 blokes from the backline streaming forward and we have Harry, Charlie and TDK standing around looking at eachother wondering what they are supposed to do.

You are still missing the overall point. Let me put it more simplistic terms for you.
Pitto + TDK >>> any other ruck combination. No argument there.

1 ruck + 21 other players, 1 of which happens to chip in to help out in the ruck >>> 2 dedicated rucks and 20 other players.

What little advantage we sacrifice in the ruck, we more than make up for the rest of the team in terms of team balance, and pressure generated as a result.

[LP]

We have tried to rest TDK forward, and ball gets cleared pretty easily because the opposition have 4 blokes from the backline streaming forward and we have Harry, Charlie and TDK standing around looking at eachother wondering what they are supposed to do.

But you've just made an argument against your own assertion that SoJ or Young stay on the ground, they aren't faster than TDK even when fresh!

By the way, you've been a bit liberal with the stats, because season 2023 Pitto averages 68% game time from 11 games, and TDK averages 76% game time from 9 games.

If anybody is wasting bench time, it's Pitto! :o

[kruddler]

But you've just arguing against your own assertion that SoJ or Young stay on the ground, they aren't faster than TDK even when fresh!

*face palm*

Do i need to draw you a diagram??

SOJ/Young are ALREADY on the ground. They are there INSTEAD OF TDK.
Instead of TDK, you play a smaller player, a mid.
A team is the land of the giants already. I am reducing that by not playing 2 rucks.

As an example, 1 ruck out = someone like Dow in. It is not like for like.