AFL Rd 10 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

[pinot]

Our small forwards don't do enough and that's the reality, they don't get the ball enough. If we had something better they wouldn't be getting a game.
Some people want Martin back...that's a real endorsement..
Our seconds got knocked over by a bunch of high school kids, there isn't any pressure for positions and we don't have any depth.

They're not bad kids and all that but they are so far off AFL standard it's driving me nuts. They need to continue to improve their craft at VFL.

Not sure what this recruitment team is going to do. But not renewing or trading a player or two out like TDK and Gov only if we can bring in small forward class like Rachele and maybe Flanders on the cheap makes sense to me.

[pew2]

our forwards need to be ruthless ,defensive pressure collingwood like to start attacking from there defence (daicos ,noble,Quaynor) run and run so stick to your man fwds lets go old school footy ,lets stuff coll game plan . One more thing do you think Voss and co watched 3Q of the ess v coll game and learn how ess was 28 pts up at 3/4 time might help.

[madbluboy]

our slow ball movement is another problem.  By the time we make up out mind what to do all options are closed.

It's like they don't want to kick to a contest, chip around for a better option then ultimately kick it to a pack of 20 players.

[PaulP]

I'm not sure what's going on. You can argue about what came first  (list or game style), but we have slow big bodied mids that are ideal for a contested game. Kicking to the boundary and forcing stoppage after stoppage seems reasonable under the circumstances. Fast ball movement if the opposition is pressing up, giving Harry and Charlie one on one contests, also makes sense. I can only assume that Voss doesn't have confidence in our ability to limit damage on turnover, so rather than risky footy, he wants the boys to play it safe looking for an uncontested mark. Playing the uncontested game requires good pace and good endurance, because you're constantly trying to get separation on your opponent.

*Scratches head and armpits in the vain hope of finding an answer.*

[madbluboy]

I'm not sure what's going on. You can argue about what came first  (list or game style), but we have slow big bodied mids that are ideal for a contested game. Kicking to the boundary and forcing stoppage after stoppage seems reasonable under the circumstances. Fast ball movement if the opposition is pressing up, giving Harry and Charlie one on one contests, also makes sense. I can only assume that Voss doesn't have confidence in our ability to limit damage on turnover, so rather than risky footy, he wants the boys to play it safe looking for an uncontested mark. Playing the uncontested game requires good pace and good endurance, because you're constantly trying to get separation on your opponent.

*Scratches head and armpits in the vain hope of finding an answer.*

Unfortunately we don't want to face the answer. Our good players make us too slow when they play together. Cripps, Kennedy, Hewitt and Cerra are fantastic players but are one paced and can't really play elsewhere.
Think Wallis at the dogs a few years ago. Even our 95 side we worked out that Barry Mitchell who was a ball magnet couldn't play in the same side as Williams because they got exposed for pace.

[WASurfer]

Small forwards might be part of the issue but thought Owies was great the other night. He's kicked 9 goals in 3 and a bit games this season.

Was bemused when I read the best player list and saw Docherty on there (thought he had a shocker with fumbles and turnovers) and Cottrell wasn't on there...thought he was close to our best in the first half when the rest were sh#thouse.

McKay needs a spell in the VFL...even if it's one game. Go back, take a ton of marks on some inexperienced bloke and just kick a bag of goals for the confidence. He looks shot to bits at the moment. Even if it means TDK comes in and plays as a tall forward and part-time in the ruck.

I'd back Weitering in. It was this game last year where he got injured and it went downhill from there with injuries to tall defenders.

[PaulP]

Unfortunately we don't want to face the answer. Our good players make us too slow when they play together. Cripps, Kennedy, Hewitt and Cerra are fantastic players but are one paced and can't really play elsewhere.
Think Wallis at the dogs a few years ago. Even our 95 side we worked out that Barry Mitchell who was a ball magnet couldn't play in the same side as Williams because they got exposed for pace.

I do understand your point. I think lack of midfield pace is one issue, the other one is sloppy ball use / decision making. Our list does have players with pace, but they either have other deficiencies that mean they're not best 22 (think Dow) or they're injured (think Cuningham). If were we able to field our best, balanced 22, and tidy up disposal, we would play deep in finals IMO.

EDIT : and our best 22 may mean that one of the slow mids misses out, as you hint.

[WASurfer]

PP....to follow up on that, I found Ed as a strange choice for the sub to be honest. Hollands might've been due for a rest but Ed doesn't really add that extra pace, even if he's fresh off the bench. Someone like a Kemp or Boyd is more appealing IMO. Obviously hindsight is wonderful if you lose a tall early in the game and only have a small as the sub....but someone with some real legs in the last quarter would've been handy.

[ElwoodBlues1]

Small forwards might be part of the issue but thought Owies was great the other night. He's kicked 9 goals in 3 and a bit games this season.

Was bemused when I read the best player list and saw Docherty on there (thought he had a shocker with fumbles and turnovers) and Cottrell wasn't on there...thought he was close to our best in the first half when the rest were sh#thouse.

McKay needs a spell in the VFL...even if it's one game. Go back, take a ton of marks on some inexperienced bloke and just kick a bag of goals for the confidence. He looks shot to bits at the moment. Even if it means TDK comes in and plays as a tall forward and part-time in the ruck.

I'd back Weitering in. It was this game last year where he got injured and it went downhill from there with injuries to tall defenders.

Our small forwards need to get a lot more accountable this game...we are going to have Noble, Quaynor and N. Daicos running loose if they dont stick close and make life hard for them.
I think Cottrell may get a look at Nick Daicos.....he hasnt had much joy with brother Josh or Sidebottom over the journey but I think
Cottrell might be best suited to follow Nick around and then have someone rotate with him so he has a rest and then can go back on him again. Keeping the Daicos kids to less than 45 possies total will go a long way to winning the game.
Weitering is defending ok its just his disposal has been Liam Jones like of late and a real liability and its probably not going to get any easier given how Collingwood pressure and force turn overs but he is a class act and Id back him in to recover some composure and settle again.

[PaulP]

PP....to follow up on that, I found Ed as a strange choice for the sub to be honest. Hollands might've been due for a rest but Ed doesn't really add that extra pace, even if he's fresh off the bench. Someone like a Kemp or Boyd is more appealing IMO. Obviously hindsight is wonderful if you lose a tall early in the game and only have a small as the sub....but someone with some real legs in the last quarter would've been handy.

I don't feel qualified to really offer an opinion on the sub. It's a new thing, and I guess the clubs are still figuring it out as well. Ed Curnow can run all game, just not very quickly. So yes, I'm not sure what the thinking was.