The rise.... and RISE of Marc Pittonet

[madbluboy]

Agree totally. Over the night, Pittonet gave English a lesson on how to be a decent ruckman. English had no answers. Alas, English got a couple of taps in the last few minutes that were crucial. But on the night, Pitto gave him a bath!
English usually take a lot of marks around the ground, last night he took only 2 and they were not pack marks.
English got a few more possessions that Pitto did, but he provided no clearances were worrying about. Pitto did his best: his clearances weren't that great; he was under pressure, but he got them. Pitto was one of our most effective players.

Yet we still lost. Imagine if we had a young athletic ruckman to relieve Pitt instead of giving them a break.

[kruddler]

Yet we still lost. Imagine if we had a young athletic ruckman to relieve Pitt instead of giving them a break.

Someone like Lobb?

Silvagni vs Lobb - STAT
21 vs 19 - Ruck contests
5 vs 7 - hitouts
1 vs 1 - hitouts to advantage
4.8% vs 5.3% - Ruck contests -> hitouts to advantage %.
2 vs 1 - Clearances
12 vs 8 - Disposals
3 vs 1 - Tackles
5 vs 4 - Marks
0.2 vs 2.0 - Goals.Behinds

As usual. Jack held his own as 2nd ruck and nullified the much more athletic, fancied ruck.
Only difference was accuracy in front of goal.

What would TDK have brought that Jack didn't?

[ElwoodBlues1]

I think Pittonets role is to reduce the effectiveness of the opposition ruckman who are usually more talented and integral to how that team play. What he does himself in terms of possessions, marks etc is a bonus.
TDK for example might have got more possessions, marks etc vs the Bulldogs but English would have also got more ball than he did and probably had greater impact.
I favour Pittonet as the 1st ruck and would rather see him play more minutes and if I was coaching would use TDK more later in the game when we needed fresh legs and spring in the middle after Pittonet had done the wearing down job on the other ruckman.
There is a role for them both both and for Pittonet on his own in a horses for courses way but I dont see TDK playing as a our lone ruckman...

[madbluboy]

Someone like Lobb?

Silvagni vs Lobb - STAT
21 vs 19 - Ruck contests
5 vs 7 - hitouts
1 vs 1 - hitouts to advantage
4.8% vs 5.3% - Ruck contests -> hitouts to advantage %.
2 vs 1 - Clearances
12 vs 8 - Disposals
3 vs 1 - Tackles
5 vs 4 - Marks
0.2 vs 2.0 - Goals.Behinds

As usual. Jack held his own as 2nd ruck and nullified the much more athletic, fancied ruck.
Only difference was accuracy in front of goal.

What would TDK have brought that Jack didn't?

Except we lost Jack up forward. You and it seems our coaches are too focused on matching the opposition.  If you want to win a flag you need to make them match you up.

[kruddler]

Except we lost Jack up forward. You and it seems our coaches are too focused on matching the opposition.  If you want to win a flag you need to make them match you up.

We lost jack for 1/4 in total.
Half that time, the ball is in the oppositions forward 50.
So we lose Jack as a forward option for 15 minutes of the game.

Yep, lets bring in a ruck who will spend 60 minutes on the bench, so we can not lose Jack for 15.

[madbluboy]

2022/2023

TDK alone: 8 wins 6 losses and a draw
Pittonet alone: 2 wins 5 losses
TDK and Pitt: 6 wins and 3* losses

*One of those losses Pittonet was injured in the first quarter.

[Thryleon]

At the moment I'd consider dropping Harry and playing TDK in his absence. 

[Gointocarlton]

At the moment I'd consider dropping Harry and playing TDK in his absence. 

Yep

[kruddler]

2022/2023

TDK alone: 8 wins 6 losses and a draw
Pittonet alone: 2 wins 5 losses
TDK and Pitt: 6 wins and 3* losses

*One of those losses Pittonet was injured in the first quarter.

As i just said in the other thread.....

Causation and Correlation.

You really need to look into that.
Let me expand so you get the point....

Week 1 - 1 ruck (TDK) - Draw (Tigers - 13th)
Week 6 - 1 ruck (Pitto) - Loss (St. Kilda - 5th)
Week 7 - 1 ruck (Pitto) - Win (West Coast - 17th)
Week 8 - 1 ruck (Pitto) - Loss (Brisbane - 3rd)
Week 9 - 1 ruck (Pitto) - Loss (Bulldogs - 6th)

Games against top 6 - 0-3
Games against middle 6 - 0-0-1
Games against bottom 6 - 1-0

Games with 2 rucks
Week 2 - 2 rucks - Win - (Geelong - 7th)
Week 3 - 2 rucks - Win - (GWS - 15th)
Week 4 - 2 rucks - Win - (NM - 16th)
Week 5 - 2 rucks - Loss (Adelaide - 8th)

Games against top 6 - 0-0
Games against middle 6 - 1-1
Games against bottom 6 - 2-0

TOTAL regardless of how many rucks we play....
Games against top 6 - 0-3
Games against middle 6 - 1-1-1
Games against bottom 6 - 3-0

Seems ladder position is all that matters, NOT the amount of rucks we play.
Ladder position is the cause of the result.
Rucks played happens to correlate with the result....ie coincidence.

As that little exercise shows. We are not as good as the top 6, clearly better than the bottom 6, and exactly even with the middle 6.
Rucks numbers are irrelevent.

[laj]

At the moment I'd consider dropping Harry and playing TDK in his absence.

Sounds ally good until it actually happens and goes crap because TDK would struggle more forward. I'm more inclined to give Harry time in the ruck. He'd help around the ground. Nothing like a nice gallop around the ground free of the restraints of a defender to get a bit confidence.

Interesting to say but we miss Levi. May have been a jack of all trades, master of none, but having a 2nd ruck, who can ruck competently, mark around the ground and hit the scoreboard will be handy. Harry is probably the one who could play a similar role, part of it an upgrade (Levi might have been a better actual ruck, hence "part").

Levi's played some good footy the last 2 years, possibly his best footy, and free from the jinx of having a navy blue jumper on him (haha), kicking way better at goal.