AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

[Thryleon]

I guess you can call it whatever you like
Rebuild 1.1, Rebuild 2.0
But to me it's the same unfinished job.
I never wanted us to go down that path anyway.
And as far as I'm concerned it's still the same 'project' that was first dreamed up in 2014 and declared in 2015.
It's not a new rebuild until you finish the old one.

Over eight or nine years you will get a significant change of personnel
In our case we've had significant changes in just a few years.
That's a large part of the problem.
The players are playing with different teammates each year and no line is really settled.

But it's not a new start.
It's a 'tinkering' that occurs each year with the draft and trade period.
Because the core group is there, in place.

A rebuild is an ongoing process until you achieve the desired success.
Silvagni said as much when he took on the job.
He wasn't looking to build a side that just made the eight.
He was building a side for 'sustained' success.
Now we can argue the merits of Silvagni's successful and not so successful choices
Even SOS will admit he probably cut too deeply.
But his goal was right.
...and it's an ongoing process, and it's not over till we reach the goal....and we ain't there yet.

The fact that the original architects are no longer around doesn't mean a thing.
That lets them off the hook.
And they should be held accountable for the length of time it's taken.
We took a decision to cut our list back and reconstuct it and until we're playing deep into finals on a regular basis that task is incomplete.

Not to me.  Are st. Kilda still rebuilding for 60 years?

Nope.  You can simply point to an inflection point where they said that's enough of that, and had to "start again".  In the process your newbies become the key players and then new newbies come in to transform it all.

Sos rebuilding started with weitering, McKay, jsos, cunners, and curnow.  These players have now come of age and are complementing our previous rebuild players of docherty and cripps.  You look through the team there is very little else remaining and aside from adding walsh, and then you change the list manager, coach, football boss, CEO etc, go out and recruit a bunch of new players and start ditching a lot of the sos rebuild players, that's where you have started to pull it down using the old rebuild as foundations for a new one.

Thats where I'm at in terms of where our team is.  The inflection point was sack Bolton, teague was to continue that project.  Voss arrival signalled the start of a new project. 

[Lods]

Not to me.  Are st. Kilda still rebuilding for 60 years?


Thats where I'm at in terms of where our team is.  The inflection point was sack Bolton, teague was to continue that project.  Voss arrival signalled the start of a new project. 

We'll have to agree to disagree, Thry
As far as I'm concerned the original job is unfinished.
Voss is just the latest manager of the 'project'


St Kilda played in a Grand Finals in  2009-2010
They played finals in 2020.... so no, they haven't been rebuilding for 60 years.
We can call an end to the rebuild when we have that level of success.

[cookie2]

We'll have to agree to disagree, Thry
As far as I'm concerned the original job is unfinished.
Voss is just the latest manager of the 'project'


St Kilda played in a Grand Finals in  2009-2010
They played finals in 2020.... so no, they haven't been rebuilding for 60 years.
We can call an end to the rebuild when we have that level of success.

Are we building the footy version of La Sagrada Familia? Sometimes feels like it.

[shawny]

Unforced errors and turnovers are different. Turnovers includes 'forced errors' that result in turnovers. Its based on pressure from the opposition as much as it is stupid errors.

But, its easier than you think.

We gave up 2 goals (at least) by refusing to take the ball over the goal line. We ended up getting tackled within meters of the goal line and turning it over. Next time, just take it over. 2 goals saved.

Pick players who can kick.....under pressure. Starting with playing Kennedy for a whole game, not as a sub.
Also, make sure we are manning up until we are clear of a turnover coming back to bite us.

Too many times we got the ball in defense and took off running, only to turn it over, get kicked back over our heads for an easy goal. Make sure we stay at home for longer and limit those 'turnover -> goal' opportunities.


I was at the game, behind the goals top level. I was trying to teach the little one how to play as a key forward/defender. Where to position, where to lead etc etc. So i spent time focusing on Charlie/Harry and on Weitering.
Weitering absolutely dominated Daniher as well as helping out teammates by peeling accross. He thwarted so many forward thrusts simply by being smart.

Alternatively, the Lions played an extra defender (sometimes 2) in our forwardline for large portions of the game and we were too stupid to do much about it. Charlie is excellent when its too his advantage, but goes completely MIA when its not, doesn't chase and is not great on the spoil. We were so used to Charlie/Harry dominating, based on last weeks effort, that we didn't put much thought into how we kicked inside 50 this time. Class of opposition showed us up.
Be a little bit smarter and use our +1s around the ball to find a target rather than hoping Charlie and Harry can dominate.

You say pick players who can kick better that’s a great idea provided you have players to pick. We had pretty much our stronger team so no more excuses.

You also say we played stupid and need to play smarter. Do you think our players have the ability to play smart.
I’ve been watching this list grow and I can tell you quite confidently this is the dumbest collection of footballers you will see and once you add in game day pressure the level of stupidity increases.

You can’t turn stupidity on and off nor can you quickly resolve poor kicking skills. You have it or you don’t.

We don’t.

[Lods]

Are we building the footy version of La Sagrada Familia? Sometimes feels like it.

)
Yep, it will be very nice...when it's finished.

[Gointocarlton]

Are we building the footy version of La Sagrada Familia? Sometimes feels like it.

Its a great analogy.

[laj]

You say pick players who can kick better that’s a great idea provided you have players to pick. We had pretty much our stronger team so no more excuses.

You also say we played stupid and need to play smarter. Do you think our players have the ability to play smart.
I’ve been watching this list grow and I can tell you quite confidently this is the dumbest collection of footballers you will see and once you add in game day pressure the level of stupidity increases.

You can’t turn stupidity on and off nor can you quickly resolve poor kicking skills. You have it or you don’t.

We don’t.

We can kick ok when we switch on properly. We showed that last year when we near made finals playing with " half a side" most weeks. Missed by just 2 "chokes". Unfortunately we have a group not hungry enough for long enough so alot less care is taken executing. They either switch on each week or otherwise it is yet just another wasted season. Worse now as we have a side that can take a step.

[Macca37]

We can kick ok when we switch on properly. We showed that last year when we near made finals playing with " half a side" most weeks. Missed by just 2 "chokes". Unfortunately we have a group not hungry enough for long enough so alot less care is taken executing. They either switch on each week or otherwise it is yet just another wasted season. Worse now as we have a side that can take a step.

As Baggers says the problem is also 'between the lug holes'.

[kruddler]

You say pick players who can kick better that’s a great idea provided you have players to pick. We had pretty much our stronger team so no more excuses.

You also say we played stupid and need to play smarter. Do you think our players have the ability to play smart.
I’ve been watching this list grow and I can tell you quite confidently this is the dumbest collection of footballers you will see and once you add in game day pressure the level of stupidity increases.

You can’t turn stupidity on and off nor can you quickly resolve poor kicking skills. You have it or you don’t.

We don’t.

Its about picking players that can kick, yes, but its also on game day.

Its like the old, 'never let a ruckman kick the ball' type of tactics.
Look at the blokes that got plenty of the ball....and turned it over plenty.

Don't let Acres be the last one in the chain when he bombs it up without looking and it goes straight to the opposition. Ditto Cripps.

So start with limiting the players you want kicking the ball.
Then work out where players SHOULD be kicking the ball, and where players need to be in order to receive it.

I'm not sure if it showed up on TV at all, but there was a number of occassions when we were on a 'fast break' and had to stop and go sideways simply because there was nobody forward of the ball to kick too. All our forwards had pushed so far up the ground that nobody was left at home. How can we find a target up forward when there isn't a target there at all?

As much as we want players to chase their man and have an 18-man team defense, sometimes that is exactly what the opposition want as it means they can't get hurt on the turnover. So perhaps we are better off leaving someone back so we always have a target to kick too.

You never used to see Fev up around the wing. He barely got outside 50.

Work smarter, not harder.

[LP]

How dumb are some of our fans, they haven't worked out that staying cheering and jeering loud and proud en masse like the Filth fans, actually influences the result!

Outbarracked by a puddle of old Fitzroy fans!

Maybe we are the why the team is the way it is?