AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

[Thryleon]

No, this is the same rebuild.
The architects of it don't get off that easy.
If you can change players you can change coaches.
Worst rebuild ever.
We built a skeleton but didn't put any solid flesh on it.
8 years in the making and still no finals.
It's a lesson to other clubs.

Not any more lods.  That rebuild gave us the core of the new rebuild.  Go back 2 years.  How many of our starting 23 were playing for us under teague? 

[Baggers]

There was one stat i saw during the game that completely summed up the game.

Scores from turnovers
Brisbane 11 goals (they had 12 at the time).

Fix that, fix the game.

It was clear that our poor skill errors cost us the game.

We were up against a legit top 4 side who have done it over a number of years.
We have not even made finals for 10+ years. This result was to be expected somewhat.
We are coming.....but we are not there yet.

But you have to ask yourself why do we turn it over so much? And when? Every single player knows how to play, kick, mark, tackle and handball ...very well.

When the game was entirely on our terms last week, very few turnovers... very little intense heat from an opponent not allowing it to be easy for us.

So... same old, same old. Under real, sustained heat from an opposition, we falter... and start making mistakes - turnovers. Not rocket science. Between the lugholes. Not tough enough. Not confident enough. Not ruthless enough. Lacking leadership and discipline... again, between the lugholes.

[Wet Willie]

Come Monday morning, perhaps even Sunday morning, were I Messrs Cook and Sayers, I’d have one man and one man only sitting in front of us, B Lloyd… Head of Football. And I’d be asking, “How come?”

How come little has changed? In fact, we don’t look as good as last year, so perhaps we’ve even gone backwards.

How come we still go to water when real heat is applied, resulting in dreadful inconsistency within games?

How come we continue to make baffling decision at the selection table? Example: a fella with ordinary VFL form gets senior selection then plays 5 ordinary games in the seniors (Honey) while others in the VFL with good form are ignored?

How come we have so many out of form players?

And HOW COME we have two Coleman medalists in our forward line who can outreach 98% of the competition, a Brownlow medalist running the engine room, yet the game plan is obsessed with a backline kicking sideways and a midfield racking up uncontested possessions instead of using speed into our forward line to isolate our goal kickers...????

And HOW COME we have the same passengers as small forwards each week??

And HOW COME we have reserve players not being rewarded for effort week after week...??

And HOW COME, when we know Brisbane try to rag doll us, do we leave Kennedy on the bench as a sub...??

And HOW FREAKIN' COME did we sub Young off - one of our best backmen - and leave Honey, Motlop, Durdin on the ground...??

[madbluboy]

Why does everyone blame the small forwards after every loss.

[Wet Willie]

Why does everyone blame the small forwards after every loss.

Can't see anybody blaming Charlie Cameron, Bailey or Sharp - they are small forwards too.  Maybe their figures were better than our bottom six players?

[Gointocarlton]

Every single player knows how to play, kick, mark, tackle and handball ...very well.

By every single player, I assume you mean AFL players in general, I'm not convinced, in fact I know, not every single one of ours can. This trait has cost us more games and coaches than any team in the comp over the last several years.

[PaulP]

Why does everyone blame the small forwards after every loss.

I suspect the reason behind it is related to an insufficient spread of goal kickers - it seems to be Charlie/Harry or bust. Whether it's justified or not is another matter. I'm also concerned about this issue, but I'd extend it to also include the mids, who should be hitting the scoreboard a little as well.

[Blue Moon]

Couldn't sit through Voss' post match press conference. It was same old same old. In management speak people work towards their targets and KPI's. Voss spoke about contested football, clearances, tackles, how hard they're training, working hard and how the boys kept trying. I use to teach this sort of stuff and I always said there are inputs, outputs and through puts but it is outcomes that are the most important. In other words you need to look at the results and not the process. In football the only outcome is the score board. One of the problem at Carlton is that they have the wrong KPI's. We are focusing on contested football, tackling, hard running and playing your role and maybe we should be look at things like decision making with a ratio of good and bad, disposals under pressure with a ratio between good and bad, disposal not under pressure and a ratio between good and bad, selfless acts and risk taking etc. The players would the players would change their mindset and start working towards the new targets because that is how they would get a game. In other words I think we are measuring and rewarding the wrong things. It would also mean the coaches would be coaching different things. If you are not going to change what you are doing then you can't expect the outcome to change. Just a thought.
In the last quarter, Pittonet monstered McInerney, Kennedy ran riot, players attacked the ball, took risks and we actually looked like a finals team. Still made the same mistakes and bloopers we had made earlier, but because we were having a go Brisbane started making mistakes, panicking and became rattled. Why don't we play like we played in the last quarter all the time. Where is our intent. Where is the willingness by players to take a chance and have a go. In the last quarter Kennedy grabbed the ball and kicked the goal. Why don't we just do that all the time. We are clearly incapable of playing perfect football with crisp disposal, why don't we just get the ball forward and play the game on our terms in a contested manner physical manner. we should probably be taking the Kennedy Commandos approach to our football rather than the clinical slick ball movement of the Clarkson era.
I am really sick of it.

[LP]

We should probably be taking the Kennedy Commandos approach to our football rather than the clinical slick ball movement of the Clarkson era.

Personally, I can't imagine that being of much use with Honey, Durdin and Motlop inside F50, we'd be second to the ball all the time and as fans we already complain about those mindless long bombs!

If not for all the unforced skill errors, we probably win last night, because general play wasn't as one-sided as fans are making out.

Ball use and efficiency was horribly asymmetrical, not doubting that, and it was the difference.

[Lods]

Not any more lods.  That rebuild gave us the core of the new rebuild.  Go back 2 years.  How many of our starting 23 were playing for us under teague? 

I guess you can call it whatever you like
Rebuild 1.1, Rebuild 2.0
But to me it's the same unfinished job.
I never wanted us to go down that path anyway.
And as far as I'm concerned it's still the same 'project' that was first dreamed up in 2014 and declared in 2015.
It's not a new rebuild until you finish the old one.

Over eight or nine years you will get a significant change of personnel
In our case we've had significant changes in just a few years.
That's a large part of the problem.
The players are playing with different teammates each year and no line is really settled.

But it's not a new start.
It's a 'tinkering' that occurs each year with the draft and trade period.
Because the core group is there, in place.

A rebuild is an ongoing process until you achieve the desired success.
Silvagni said as much when he took on the job.
He wasn't looking to build a side that just made the eight.
He was building a side for 'sustained' success.
Now we can argue the merits of Silvagni's successful and not so successful choices
Even SOS will admit he probably cut too deeply.
But his goal was right.
...and it's an ongoing process, and it's not over till we reach the goal....and we ain't there yet.

The fact that the original architects are no longer around doesn't mean a thing.
That lets them off the hook.
And they should be held accountable for the length of time it's taken.
We took a decision to cut our list back and reconstuct it and until we're playing deep into finals on a regular basis that task is incomplete.