AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

[blueboys_1]

Complryely outcoached by Ross the Boss.

Yep. Played into his hands. Blocked all the exists. As a mate of mine said that night we had no idea how to play to his game style and it looked that way.

[laj]

We need a better forward mix. Its up to the coaches to rectify it because it hasn't been working for years.

Defensive mix is top four - I rate our defence and defensive mechanisms as one of the best in the league.
Midfield mix is top six - out of form midfield that is starting to put it together need them healthy to build better cohesion but no doubt the clearance and tackling work is of high quality.
Forward mix is bottom four - We can't depend on Charlie and Harry every game - there are six players in the forward line not two and they all need to play their roles and pull their weight which they are not doing.

We miss Owies. He hits the scoreboard and ranked 3rd for inside 50 tackles last year.

[laj]

Yep. Played into his hands. Blocked all the exists. As a mate of mine said that night we had no idea how to play to his game style and it looked that way.

Malthouse effectively used a big forward press when coaching the Pies and was very effective against Lyon's style.

[Gointocarlton]

It's a bit of a Lyon 'love-in' at the moment.
There is no doubt he is a great tactical and game day coach.
It's silly to dispute otherwise.
In fact his time away has probably enabled him to hone those skills.
He was pretty impressive in some of the analysis he used to do on 'Footy Classified'.

Can he maintain and keep the love flowing over the season is the question.
It's funny...everyone wants him now but when we had a poll on the new coach after Teague, 55 people voted and only 3 voted for Lyon.

Lyon has shown over a long period of time he can keep teams competitive and hard to beat right off the bat. Perhaps he isn't the serial killer everyone made him out to be.

[PaulP]

Lyon's coaching record is a mixed bag. Some terrific seasons, some ordinary ones. 2016,17,18 and 19 were ordinary by any measure. 16th, 14th, 14th, 13th respectively. 4 seasons in a row of lowly finishes has to tarnish the reputation somewhat IMO.

[Macca37]

There's lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth on Carlton supporting social media this week.
There seems to be a lot more angst over this loss rather than the Adelaide one, which in my opinion was much worse.
One punter even suggested that we'd brought Walsh back to soon and he should go back to the reserves.
I think it was Ricky Gervais who said something along the lines of... "Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and everyone else is entitled to find those opinions F#ck$n ridiculous"

We're apparently a crap team with a crap coach who we need to replace.
Well if we're such a crap team with such a crap coach it reflects pretty poorly on St Kilda and their coach who were beaten in just about every key statistic and could only beat us by 22 points

I don't understand the fixation with statistics.  If they are an accurate reflection of the game then we should have won.

Football statistics don't show whether a disposal by hand or foot was effective or whether it caused a turnover resulting in a goal; whether the ball was kicked sideways or backwards to no effect; whether a ruck tap was to our advantage etc, etc.

Until there is ever a meaningful breakdown of the statistics I regard them as being covered by the saying "lies, damn lies and statistics".

[PaulP]

I don't understand the fixation with statistics.  If they are an accurate reflection of the game then we should have won.

Football statistics don't show whether a disposal by hand or foot was effective or whether it caused a turnover resulting in a goal; whether the ball was kicked sideways or backwards to no effect; whether a ruck tap was to our advantage etc, etc.

Until there is ever a meaningful breakdown of the statistics I regard them as being covered by the saying "lies, damn lies and statistics".

Statistics are valuable and regarded as important information, and every club has their own stats people that do I assume what Champion Data does. The problem for us on the outside is that only a small number of stats are easily available, and they need sound football knowledge to interpret and use helpfully - not football forum level knowledge.

[Lods]

I don't understand the fixation with statistics.  If they are an accurate reflection of the game then we should have won.

Football statistics don't show whether a disposal by hand or foot was effective or whether it caused a turnover resulting in a goal; whether the ball was kicked sideways or backwards to no effect; whether a ruck tap was to our advantage etc, etc.

Until there is ever a meaningful breakdown of the statistics I regard them as being covered by the saying "lies, damn lies and statistics".

Totally agree.
They are a component only.
They're a part of the story.
But they're often mentioned by coaches, commentators and analysists...so they do have a role
They're an indicator of where you're breaking down.
If you're dominating scoring and clearances yet are behind on the scoreboard there is a problem in efficiency and accuracy.
For the mere mortal you can probably gather that from observation of the game but in the review of performance by coaches they probably give a starting point for analysis and correction...and sometimes an indicator that the scoreboard alone also isn't telling the full story of how a game develops.

[shawny]

Lyon won the coaching duel when he put Sinclair into the middle, that changed the game. I seem to remember Sinclair doing a number on us several times.
Yep we won the stats but let's dive deeper...the Lyon game plan forces you to feck around with ball, go sideways, then sideways again with useless kicks as you try and pick your way through and it's perfect for a slow moving , poor kicking team like we have.
The stat count for our players was ridiculous this game...our mids had so much of the ball but no idea on what to do with it.
Lyon won this game in the coaching box and showed he hasn't lost much of his cunning since his Freo days.

Spot on. Yep and as usual with our club another dumb decision in passing on Lyon who while he may coach a non exciting game plan did get 2 separate lists into GFs and if not for a cruel bounce would be a premiership coach and yet we decided to run with a champion player but a man that failed miserably the last time he was head coach.

Typical.

[PaulP]

Spot on. Yep and as usual with our club another dumb decision in passing on Lyon who while he may coach a non exciting game plan did get 2 separate lists into GFs and if not for a cruel bounce would be a premiership coach and yet we decided to run with a champion player but a man that failed miserably the last time he was head coach.

Typical.

Strictly speaking, that's not quite right. Lyon was only prepared to go through an interview process against the likes of Clarkson and Brad Scott. He basically pulled out when he realised he would have to compete for the job against assistants, something which he clearly viewed as beneath him. Folks will have to make up their own minds about the merits of his position. The club did not pass on him as such.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/c...97b0b003f2


It came after Lyon told Triple M on the weekend: “The one thing I felt sick about … I was like ‘Yep I’m in, yeah I’m keen, I’m happy to go through a process. But this is what I said: ‘I don’t want to go through a process against other assistants’. I’ll go through a process against Brad Scott, Clarko, that’s fair enough. But assistants? I was like eh.”

Also, as I suggested earlier, his last 4 years at Fremantle were very average - it's not unreasonable to speculate that he was burnt out or washed up.