CV and mad panic behaviour

[Thryleon]

I had an interesting encounter with a bloke in the local park while walking my dog. After he started by asking about my dog and showing me a picture of his dog, somehow things took an unexpected turn. He talked about his mother having cancer and the forces of evil trying to stop people getting the cures promoted on the internet. As a subtle way of distancing myself from that nonsense I mentioned the fact that Steve Jobs had an eminently treatable cancer but he managed to kill himself by adopting alternative (quack) cures such as vitamin C. Lo and behold, this guy then segues into another conspiracy theory, saying Jobs didn’t do what other elites did in his circumstances. He said it was well known that rich people travelled to Jeffrey Epstein’s island where young girls were imprisoned in dark basements and scared with spiders and other nasties so their adrenaline could be sucked from their bodies as a cure for cancer. I’m pretty sure he suggested some woman put out a video saying she was forced to kill her daughter as part of that conspiracy. Mind blown! The guy was friendly and pleasant but WTF …

Another weirdo is Kate Langbroek. A Hun story about her exploits on The Project says it all:
I’m pretty amazed that Waleed Aly wasn’t able to shoot down her nonsense more effectively. She had the temerity to compare her fellow conspiracy theorists to Galileo. He was a scientist who went where the facts took him. He was then attacked by the Church on the basis of beliefs that were resistant to contrary proof. Conspiracy  theorists are the inheritors of the Church’s anti-scientific beliefs, though thankfully they have less power.

notice how the second i suggest a logical thought process this sort of discussion comes up?  The reality is, that this is just the opposit extreme to those who spent the better part of the last couple of years working from home afraid to go out in public.

[Mav]

Thryleon, you’ll note that my comments followed a quote from LP regarding anti-vax disinformation. I wasn’t implying that your post was an example of that and although I can’t speak for LP I doubt if he was doing that either. The nature of this thread is that we bounce from 1 aspect to another. Your post, after the 1st paragraph, wasn’t really anything to do with posts that preceded it which focussed on whether Covid came from the lab or not. You can’t assume that posts subsequent to yours build on your post rather than changing the subject a bit. Tangents are everywhere in our threads.

[ElwoodBlues1]

10 countries say its impossible.
USA say its highly likely.

Even with some 'chinese influence', that is a huge turnaround that makes me think its more propaganda from the US.

I wouldnt trust China or the USA so I have an open mind on the Lab leak theory, agree with LP the Chinese covered up the outbreak and allowed it to spread and mutate before informing other countries which is probably a bigger crime.

[LP]

I’m pretty amazed that Waleed Aly wasn’t able to shoot down her nonsense more effectively. She had the temerity to compare her fellow conspiracy theorists to Galileo. He was a scientist who went where the facts took him. He was then attacked by the Church on the basis of beliefs that were resistant to contrary proof. Conspiracy  theorists are the inheritors of the Church’s anti-scientific beliefs, though thankfully they have less power.

Ignoring the Galileo comments which are just bizarre, Aly's problem countering the rest of the weirdo shizen highlights the issue. You can't oppose fantasy with fact, the best strategy is to extend the fantasy into any or all of the logical absurdities that it presents.

Many of the nutters suffer a disillusion that has them thinking they know something you don't, I see it as a form of pattern recognition, like when someone sees Jesus in some toast. But the more insidious types have learnt that you cannot disprove a negative, and leverage that technicality.

We try to do the rational thing and offer a proof of a positive, and they respond with more fantasy, which leads to circular rubbish.

Instead develop the fantasy with them, and then when they eventually offer a contradiction refer back to it, if that fails you know two things, you are wasting your time, and they are quite possible morons who are either in line for a Darwin Award or a Dunning-Kruger diagnosis.

[Baggers]

Remember I was in the health care system and left in January of last year.  I spoke to people who were responsible for the covid pathways and monitoring before they needed care. 

People stating and over stating the severity of covid are not helping matters.  The cat is out of the bag, and I'll call a spade a spade, and an enlightened mind will entertain the idea that we made some errors.

As you know 3 Leos, I also work in health care (mental health) and during the pandemic had plenty of contact with medicos from a number of differing medical specialties. And just like here, there were plenty of differing opinions as to how the pandemic should be handled, how severe the virus was and who were the best qualified to recommend actions (to pollies). The one agreement was that our systems were ill-equipped to handled a massive influx of infected (yes, mostly medically vulnerable folks) people into hospitals.

With respect, I don't think you need an enlightened mind to see errors made. (I use the term hindsight in reference to those who condemn the actions of those in charge during the pandemic assuming that they should have or did know, what we know now). Simple experience and common sense see mistakes were made and we will and have learned from that. First among those lessons is how neglected our hospitals and associated emergency care agencies have been and still are. There are those of us, and I suspect you are among the ranks, who have been pointing out just how inadequate our health care agencies for years... decades! The systems were already stressed and hanging on by a thread before the pandemic.

The vulnerable. Yes there were vulnerable whose health was very compromised and Covid simply dealt the final blow to overwhelm their bodies. However, there were many vulnerable who were undergoing treatment who would have lived without the pandemic delivering a knockout blow. Both groups deserved our best efforts to protect them.

As far as mental health goes... we've learned that lockdowns can and do have a devastating effect on the mental health of many, ranging from those without mental health issues (in fact, creating issues) to those already struggling with mental health issues (worsening them, considerably). And a good % of these folks are still seeking and undergoing treatment in an area horribly under resourced. This area (mental health) is further hampered by the stigmas and ignorance still prevalent in the community. It's improving, but still too slowly.

[madbluboy]

notice how the second i suggest a logical thought process this sort of discussion comes up?  The reality is, that this is just the opposit extreme to those who spent the better part of the last couple of years working from home afraid to go out in public.

You can't have a reasonable discussion about it.

[PaulP]

In times of difficulty and uncertainty, we all need to take some kind of hit for the greater good. Being over cautious rather than under cautious seems a more sensible approach IMO, when the world really did not have a clear idea of what they were dealing with. There will be a downside to any preventive measure.

https://theconversation.com/did-the-covi...-on-176623

[northernblue]

notice how the second i suggest a logical thought process this sort of discussion comes up?  The reality is, that this is just the opposit extreme to those who spent the better part of the last couple of years working from home afraid to go out in public.

Who was afraid to go out in public ?
I thought people were advised to minimise going out in public, maximise social distancing and try not to breath all over everyone (wear masks) ?

[Mav]

There will be a downside to any preventive measure.

And there will be opponents to any preventative measure too. If unanimous support is needed, then governments would never be able to do anything.

Let’s not forget that various diseases have been stopped in their tracks by concerted government and social action. SARS and MERS were also coronaviruses. Ebola has been contained or eliminated several times. Smallpox, a highly infectious virus, was virtually eliminated as was Polio. Measles was well contained by the MMR vaccine. Rarely have the 2 superpowers been so incompetent at combatting a potential pandemic.

[Mav]

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