General Discussions

[LP]

Why do you always resort to the compensation line?

Look up William Cooper.  He’s the bloke who started the national day of mourning on 26 Jan 1938.  He’s also the bloke who led a delegation to the German consulate in 1938 to protest about the Nazi attacks on Jews.  Was he looking for compensation from Hitler?

Highlighting the acts of the odd noble individual, or even the acts of the vast majority if they are conscientious, doesn't explain away the motives of a radical minority.

The problem for me is that some actions of a small minority do not seem to be consistent with the broader message, yet they happily hide amongst us.

[DJC]

Highlighting the acts of the odd noble individual, or even the acts of the vast majority if they are conscientious, doesn't explain away the motives of a radical minority.

The problem for me is that some actions of a small minority do not seem to be consistent with the broader message, yet they happily hide amongst us.

LP, I know most of the so-called activists from Victoria and some from the other States and Territories.  They are straightforward, honest folk seeking nothing more than a more tolerant, accepting Australia.

If you had been paying attention, you would have heard very loud voices raised in opposition to the folk who hijacked the Change the Date protest; Lydia Thorpe’s mob.  As you may know, Lydia is opposed to the Voice because she claims sovereignty.  As my former boss said on the wireless last week, “Do they know what sovereignty means?”

It’s interesting that Lydia and Jacinta Price have reached a similar decision but from very different political persuasions.  And that just serves to illustrate that Indigenous Australians aren’t a homogenous group.  They have just as many opinions and beliefs as any other ethnic, cultural or sociopolitical group in Australia but with probably more of slant towards the conservative side.

Just who are these radicals that concern you LP?  And don’t suggest Adam Goodes ?

[Gointocarlton]

'Australia' was actually born as a nation, and no longer a group of independent colonies, on January 1st, 1901. Seems a logical date for Australia Day. A day when all Australians, regardless of race/religion/colour or creed, can celebrate all that is Aussie AND all our roots.

For arguments sake, parades in all capital cities, major rural cities, with floats/representations/music from all those who make up 'Australia' - indigenous Aussies, English, Greeks, Italians, Irish, Scot, Japanese, Chines, Vietnamese, Indian, Pakistani, other various Asian countries... etc., etc. Acknowledging and respecting all.

Baggers what occurred on the 1st of January 1901 stemmed from the happenings in the period between that date and 26th January 1788, there is no changing what occurred. As Lods said in reply #1351, its about how we celebrate it, the thoughts behind it and the learnings from it to ensure we are (or become) be better humans.

[DJC]

Baggers what occurred on the 1st of January 1901 stemmed from the happenings in the period between that date and 26th January 1788, there is no changing what occurred. As Lods said in reply #1351, its about how we celebrate it, the thoughts behind it and the learnings from it to ensure we are (or become) be better humans.

In fact 26 Jan 1788 is just one small step in the process that led to the establishment of the Australian nation on 1 Jan 1901.  The arrival and successful colonisation of the continent by the first Australians 60-odd thousand years ago, the occupation of the Torres Strait islands by Melanesians around 8,000 years ago, the trading and trepanging voyages of the Macassans and the exploratory expeditions of the Dutch, French, Portuguese and English in the last 3-400 years are equally if not more important.

Then there’s the establishment of the free, non-convict, colonies in Victoria, South Australia and Western Australia … and those States refused to celebrate NSW’s foundation day as Australia Day for well over 100 years, longer in fact than Australia Day has been celebrated on 26 Jan.

The real “Australia Day” is 1 Jan … but we already have a public holiday and, as a nation, we’re not mature enough to celebrate our nationhood after a night watching fireworks ?

Governor Phillips’ instructions haven’t been found but there is a copy of a draft (or draught as it’s spelt).  It makes interesting reading, particularly the references to “Savages”, the use of force, and the assertion that the eastern part of the continent, from Cape York to South Cape,  was already an English possession, courtesy of James Cook’s actions 20 years previously.

The instruction to address the male-female imbalance by procuring females from neighbouring islands is interesting, if not directly relevant to the Australia Day debate.

Arthur Phillip fell out of a window of his house in Bath and died from the injuries he received.  He is buried in a churchyard on the outskirts of Bath and the church has a memorial to him.  I went there to pay my respects to a bloke who did a pretty good job under difficult circumstances … but he didn’t take possession of Australia or establish our nation.  He established a penal colony and worked hard to minimise harm to the Savages, or the Eora people as they prefer to be known.  However, Phillip set in motion a process that led to the dispossession of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, loss of language and culture and dramatic loss of life.

Estimates of the Aboriginal population of Victoria at the beginning of the 19th century vary considerably; from 25,000 to 100,000 or more.  What is indisputable is that by the end of the 19th century, the Aboriginal population was less than 800.  That’s as close as you get to genocide without actually achieving it.

Why not let Indigenous Australians commemorate invasion day and find a better day to celebrate an inclusive Australia? I march proudly on ANZAC Day to commemorate those who have served our nation but Indigenous Australians are told to get over the invasion of their land.

[Thryleon]

In fact 26 Jan 1788 is just one small step in the process that led to the establishment of the Australian nation on 1 Jan 1901.  The arrival and successful colonisation of the continent by the first Australians 60-odd thousand years ago, the occupation of the Torres Strait islands by Melanesians around 8,000 years ago, the trading and trepanging voyages of the Macassans and the exploratory expeditions of the Dutch, French, Portuguese and English in the last 3-400 years are equally if not more important.

Then there’s the establishment of the free, non-convict, colonies in Victoria, South Australia and Western Australia … and those States refused to celebrate NSW’s foundation day as Australia Day for well over 100 years, longer in fact than Australia Day has been celebrated on 26 Jan.

The real “Australia Day” is 1 Jan … but we already have a public holiday and, as a nation, we’re not mature enough to celebrate our nationhood after a night watching fireworks ?

Governor Phillips’ instructions haven’t been found but there is a copy of a draft (or draught as it’s spelt).  It makes interesting reading, particularly the references to “Savages”, the use of force, and the assertion that the eastern part of the continent, from Cape York to South Cape,  was already an English possession, courtesy of James Cook’s actions 20 years previously.

The instruction to address the male-female imbalance by procuring females from neighbouring islands is interesting, if not directly relevant to the Australia Day debate.

Arthur Phillip fell out of a window of his house in Bath and died from the injuries he received.  He is buried in a churchyard on the outskirts of Bath and the church has a memorial to him.  I went there to pay my respects to a bloke who did a pretty good job under difficult circumstances … but he didn’t take possession of Australia or establish our nation.  He established a penal colony and worked hard to minimise harm to the Savages, or the Eora people as they prefer to be known.  However, Phillip set in motion a process that led to the dispossession of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, loss of language and culture and dramatic loss of life.

Estimates of the Aboriginal population of Victoria at the beginning of the 19th century vary considerably; from 25,000 to 100,000 or more.  What is indisputable is that by the end of the 19th century, the Aboriginal population was less than 800.  That’s as close as you get to genocide without actually achieving it.

Why not let Indigenous Australians commemorate invasion day and find a better day to celebrate an inclusive Australia? I march proudly on ANZAC Day to commemorate those who have served our nation but Indigenous Australians are told to get over the invasion of their land.

Can we have an additional public holiday?

If so im onboard.  One for invasion day commemoration, and another for the Australia Day celebration of the Australian Open victory?

Will fit right in to the long weekend nicely IMHO.

[Mav]

Why do you always resort to the compensation line?

For the same reason that opponents of same sex marriage warned that the next step would be allowing people to marry children, animals, & inanimate objects and of course more than 2 people would marry in every possible number and combination. Even small changes will inevitably end up with the world going to hell in a hand basket. In fact, the only way to stop that decline is to turn the clock back to the 18th Century.

[DJC]

Can we have an additional public holiday?

If so im onboard.  One for invasion day commemoration, and another for the Australia Day celebration of the Australian Open victory?

Will fit right in to the long weekend nicely IMHO.

Anything for another public holiday Thry? 

I was actually suggesting holding Australia Day on 1 Jan so we would lose a public holiday.  However, if it is to be genuine celebration of our nation, warts and all, the day should be free of other connections; May 8 springs to mind 

I guess we could keep 26 Jan as a public holiday but make the focus on Indigenous Australia.  As others have pointed out, there's a fair bit of that already but it could be more positive.

[Lods]

I was actually suggesting holding Australia Day on 1 Jan so we would lose a public holiday.  However, if it is to be genuine celebration of our nation, warts and all, the day should be free of other connections; May 8 springs to mind 

May 8th works for me.
It's "World Donkey Day" and also "No Socks day"

We could go around in thongs and act like Donkeys....wait, we do that already on January 26th

[Thryleon]

Anything for another public holiday Thry? 

I was actually suggesting holding Australia Day on 1 Jan so we would lose a public holiday.  However, if it is to be genuine celebration of our nation, warts and all, the day should be free of other connections; May 8 springs to mind 

I guess we could keep 26 Jan as a public holiday but make the focus on Indigenous Australia.  As others have pointed out, there's a fair bit of that already but it could be more positive.

Not anything but like lods states in Melbourne jan 26 works really well and bookended  the weekend makes for an extra day camping and fishing.

Im against Australia day being moved in general but recognise that things are going to change eventually regardless of what we think.  We may as well adopt the aboriginal flag, call ourselves the Kulin nation and be done with it.

[DJC]

Not anything but like lods states in Melbourne jan 26 works really well and bookended  the weekend makes for an extra day camping and fishing.

Im against Australia day being moved in general but recognise that things are going to change eventually regardless of what we think.  We may as well adopt the aboriginal flag, call ourselves the Kulin nation and be done with it.

Kulin Nation is a group of five language groups from south-central Victoria.  And that’s why there’s no chance of Australia adopting an Indigenous name; the concept of one name for the continent is a European construct, beginning with Terra Australis before any Europeans had actually seen what they thought must be there.