Carlton AFLW Review - Half Gone

[DJC]

I was half listening to the wireless recently when a comment from a national women’s sport administrator (cricket I think) caught my attention.  It was along the lines “not women playing men’s sport but women playing their version of the sport.”

I have mixed feelings when I see an AFLW player bump an opponent when the ball is out of play.  It’s mildly amusing to see the girls aping an unnecessary part on the men’s game but it’s sad that they think that they have to.

As for the review, it will be disappointing if player retention is not highlighted as a key factor in our failure to consistently feature in the finals.  I don’t know if Harf is the best coach for us but he seems to get the most out of a list that has its share of issues.

[Lods]

Just on the player retention aspect...
It is an important issue, and to be honest one that has affected my interest in the side's progression.

But until we had a full complement of sides this movement was always going to occur as new teams entered the competition.
It's something the review should address, but it will be more of a concern if it's still occurring in three to four years time.

[Gointocarlton]

Just on the player retention aspect...
It is an important issue, and to be honest one that has affected my interest in the side's progression.

But until we had a full complement of sides this movement was always going to occur as new teams entered the competition.
It's something the review should address, but it will be more of a concern if it's still occurring in three to four years time.

Player retention is for the most part on the AFL. They made it open slather instead of a controlled, slow burn for the new clubs. They allowed 3 of our best players to be pilfered in the one year (two to the same club). They should have put a rule in place that only one or two players from each club could be pilfered in any say 3 year block, first in best dressed. Coaching aside, by allowing this to happen, they set us back years.
We lost (to name a few):
Harris (good riddance)
Twin 1
Twin 2
Egan
Prespakis
GG
Thats akin to loosing from the mens side say:
H or Charlie
Walsh
Cripps
Kennedy
Fisher
SOS
There are others but do that to any side and they are cactus. This is another large reason why I completely lost interest.

[Thryleon]

It's funny LP, my daughter is on the fringes of the AFLW system (she has very close friends involved) and what you talk about is what I see and it's an issue.  I'm not sure what to call it, it comes across as what you called "bitchiness" (I hate that term) but there's clearly a me me me aspect of selfishness to many players and "closed shop" player cliques within the clubs.  This doesn't make for an environment whereby all players pull equally hard on the rope at the same time.  It's really divisive.  Many of these players have fought bloody hard to get where they are, I get the feeling some of them lose sight of the fact that it's teams that win, that individual success is inextricably related to team success.

This is not an unusual phenomenon in sports.

It is not unique to the women's game.

Our current batch of men have a couple in the team as an example.  They're good players too, and it only becomes an issue if they're not or if they start seeing off competitors for their role.

This idea that the girls are only like this is the real issue regarding how we treat men and women. 

[kruddler]

Player retention is for the most part on the AFL. They made it open slather instead of a controlled, slow burn for the new clubs. They allowed 3 of our best players to be pilfered in the one year (two to the same club). They should have put a rule in place that only one or two players from each club could be pilfered in any say 3 year block, first in best dressed. Coaching aside, by allowing this to happen, they set us back years.
We lost (to name a few):
Harris (good riddance)
Twin 1
Twin 2
Egan
Prespakis
GG
Thats akin to loosing from the mens side say:
H or Charlie
Walsh
Cripps
Kennedy
Fisher
SOS
There are others but do that to any side and they are cactus. This is another large reason why I completely lost interest.

You missed Stevens, Jones and Brazzale over that same period.
Which is probably Jack, McGovern and Cottrell equivalents. (Take SOS out of your other list and include Cerra)

[LP]

This is not an unusual phenomenon in sports.

This idea that the girls are only like this is the real issue regarding how we treat men and women.

I have not had enough to do with girls in team sport outside of footy or cricket to know the global answer to that question. I think it may be different for team events that are built on individual efforts like swimming, tennis or golf, etc., etc.. Even cricket seemed to suffer it less, but it's a much smaller tighter squad and the on field comes down to bat versus ball.

But I can say I've never seen anything in male footy teams like what goes on around and about the female footy teams, and changing a pronoun or two in the female squad makes bugger all difference.

In the men you get individual blokes that outright hate each other off the pitch for a variety of reasons, but it rarely persists and I've never seen it form a clique or seen blokes made a persona non grata like you find in a girls team. Of course you can see certain trouble players kicked out of any squad, like Carey at Norp, but this is not what we are talking about.

Which is why I chose the term clique.

[ElwoodBlues1]

I have not had enough to do with girls in team sport outside of footy or cricket to know the global answer to that question. I think it may be different for team events that are built on individual efforts like swimming, tennis or golf, etc., etc.. Even cricket seemed to suffer it less, but it's a much smaller tighter squad and the on field comes down to bat versus ball.

But I can say I've never seen anything in male footy teams like what goes on around and about the female footy teams, and changing a pronoun or two in the female squad makes bugger all difference.

In the men you get individual blokes that outright hate each other off the pitch for a variety of reasons, but it rarely persists and I've never seen it form a clique or seen blokes made a persona non grata like you find in a girls team. Of course you can see certain trouble players kicked out of any squad, like Carey at Norp, but this is not what we are talking about.

Which is why I chose the term clique.

Nth was a clique when Carey was at its peak, he ran the playing group with his henchman and everyone knew their place and it strangely worked and was sanctioned by the coach and admin. I dont follow the womens comp that closely  but if you rip the heart out of the list like has what happened at Carlton and lose experience/talent then you quickly get the remaining players looking after their own survival and forgetting about the team.
Harford will be the fall guy but he hasnt done much wrong apart from being in the job at the wrong time of the clubs journey and being left with no star players to do the job with. Very hard to draft a team at this embryonic stage of the womens comp and you need to buy the best players like back when the mens team were successful and we used form fours to grab the best talent along with brown paper bags of cash.

[Lods]

I'd be really suprised if cliques weren't a major issue for our men's side in the last twenty years.

I'd say they also played a part in the demise of a coach or two.

And that may go a long way to explaining our lack of success.

[kruddler]

I'd be really suprised if cliques weren't a major issue for our men's side in the last twenty years.

I'd say they also played a part in the demise of a coach or two.

And that may go a long way to explaining our lack of success.

I eluded to it before when i mentioned Bri Daveys name and non-halford issues.

Story goes she was promised a car (Sponsored by Hyundai) but that promise was not fulfilled for whatever reason, she got dirty because of it and put her offside. Then we basically sacked her girlfriend, supposedly in a manner that was deemed harsh and/or unfairly and that was the final straw.

The other players leaving are for a variety of reasons, expansion and $$$'s a big one, but not fitting within the team and/or losing the trust of the team being causing the demise of one of our highest profile departures.

Harford may or may (or may not) have been responsible for pissing a few players off and them wanting out, but IMO if a player doesn't want to do what the coach is required, we are better off moving them on. We don't need white ants.

But yes, Bri Davey leaving was separate to the others.

[kruddler]

re cliques, happens in the mens game too. Think about the story about why Malthouse chose Maxwell as the captain of Collingwood - to unite the cliques.