Darcy Vescio has an announcement

[Baggers]

It shows us we should tread carefully because we don't know who is listening and how it affects them. Which in turn DOES change social politics for the same reason. We don't have to understand it, but we need to respect it. We don't have to bend over backwards for it, but for something as simple as using they/them over she/her then its the least we can do. Refusing to do that, shows little respect.

Well said, K.

Your piece from the Native Americans I found really relevant and important. As someone who has for many decades resonated with the spirituality of Native Americans, and studied their culture/spirituality and stayed with some of these folks briefly when visiting the States in '93, I was aware of their attitude to the 'souls' of people and their attitudes to sexuality. I found it (and still find it) inspiring. Do our souls (spirits, whatever you like) have a gender or sexuality? Nuh. Sometimes I wish we could simply fast forward about 50 years to when we humans have advanced beyond ignorance toward gender, race, colour, sexuality... etc., to acceptance, celebration of difference ...and subsequent respect.

[kruddler]

Obviously  we spend a lot less time discussing the women's competition than we do the men's.
It's probably not that difficult a task to make those they/her adjustments for Darcy...especially while the season hasn't started
I'm wondering whether we'd afford a prominent  member of our AFL men's  team identifying as binary the same level of 'respect' during lengthy in season discussions.
Some of us may, but when does it become too much of a chore, and do we have different standards for biological males and females.
What if Darcy was a fringe player without the profile. Would we still make the effort because it's unlikely that Darcy will be the last player to take this position. It makes things like forum discussions very difficult with different terms for different players.
Given that it's doubtful too many players are avid readers of CSC does it matter a great deal if we stick to the He for the Male  comp and She for the female comp.

I don't know about you Lods, but i was the one who posted the darcy announcement and i would've posted it if it was player #30 on our list too.

Same with the men.

They are all human and all deserve to be treated as such, regardless of how good they are at footy.

Its a forum and people will write what they wanna write and that includes whatever pronouns they wanna use, but i'll be trying my best to get them right. Doesn't matter if players read this, or their families, or whoever, but perhaps one of our posters feels the same way as Darcy, by ignoring Darcys wishes, you are (potentially) disrespected other posters.

We all know a rival club captain used to frequent here and has family who do too, if they were thinking of following suit (just an example) how would that make their family members feel?

[Lods]

I don't know about you Lods, but i was the one who posted the darcy announcement and i would've posted it if it was player #30 on our list too.

Same with the men.

They are all human and all deserve to be treated as such, regardless of how good they are at footy.

Its a forum and people will write what they wanna write and that includes whatever pronouns they wanna use, but i'll be trying my best to get them right. Doesn't matter if players read this, or their families, or whoever, but perhaps one of our posters feels the same way as Darcy, by ignoring Darcys wishes, you are (potentially) disrespected other posters.

We all know a rival club captain used to frequent here and has family who do too, if they were thinking of following suit (just an example) how would that make their family members feel?

I'll try my best too Kruds.
I'm just pointing out that in the greater scheme of things while it is just an individual, folks may try  their best...as it becomes more than just one or two players folks will just drop back or look to different labels.

Imagine a situation where you're talking about our forward line (men's or women's team) and half the group identify as binary,.
Try juggling your pronouns then.

Noble thoughts, but practically it will require a big effort. It's one that most folks wouldn't bother trying.
It would stifle discussion.
It's for each individual to determine how they approach this, as I said where Darcy is concerned I'll try my best.
But a poster shouldn't be judged by the pronouns they choose to use.

[Lods]

I don't know about you Lods, but i was the one who posted the darcy announcement and i would've posted it if it was player #30 on our list too.

It's interesting...I asked myself the question "would I have posted it?"
Yes I would have, if I'd seen it first but....
I wouldn't have posted it if it was player #30 on our Woman's team.
I would have posted it if it was player # 30 on our men's team.

I don't think that's a bias based on sex but more about the relative importance of the competitions in my own mind.
I wouldn't have posted it if it was player # 30 on our VFL side.

[LP]

It shows us we should tread carefully because we don't know who is listening and how it affects them. Which in turn DOES change social politics for the same reason. We don't have to understand it, but we need to respect it. We don't have to bend over backwards for it, but for something as simple as using they/them over she/her then its the least we can do. Refusing to do that, shows little respect.

We do not apply the pressure to Darcy, she cares nothing of your opinion, my opinion, or any of the thousands of fans, etc., etc...  Our opinions carry no weight within Darcy's frame of reference and apply next to no pressure either individually or accumulatively.

She cares about family, friends and close associates. The bulk of the pressure comes from close peers, some may come from close friends and family, but typically not much as they will love / care for Darcy unconditionally.

My first-hand experience in this issue is that the bulk of the pressure comes from politically / socially aligned peers, who do want to make a big issue of it one way or the other. They are happy or even ecstatic for Darcy to sacrifice herself on the public alter to further their own cause.

[kruddler]

We do not apply the pressure to Darcy, she cares nothing of your opinion, my opinion, or any of the thousands of fans, etc., etc...  Our opinions carry no weight within Darcy's frame of reference and apply next to no pressure either individually or accumulatively.

She cares about family, friends and close associates. The bulk of the pressure comes from close peers, some may come from close friends and family, but typically not much as they will love / care for Darcy unconditionally.

My first-hand experience in this issue is that the bulk of the pressure comes from politically / socially aligned peers, who do want to make a big issue of it one way or the other. They are happy or even ecstatic for Darcy to sacrifice herself on the public alter to further their own cause.

Point is, its bigger than Darcy.
Refusing to 'play along' with Darcy's requests is a slap in the face for others who may not be as fortunate as Darcy to have such a close knit and supportive group.

Your first hand issue has been discussed previously, and from what i can gather it is very much in the minority and is clouding your views on the matter.

That can be seen from your reaction earlier in the thread...

I'm dead against people who continually message and lecture me publicly about not wanting to be labelled / categorised coming out and demanding I refer to them by a label.

Now from the video, which was shot in late October, until when this thread was started off the back of THE tweet, there has been literally no mention of it.
So the 'continual, lecturing, demanding' side of things is coming from something other than this issue re Darcy.

So again, think of the bigger picture.
Darcy might be leading the way, but thats only the tip of the iceberg, 90% of which we will never see.

[LP]

Refusing to 'play along' with Darcy's requests is a slap in the face for others who may not be as fortunate as Darcy to have such a close knit and supportive group.

Interesting you use that term "play", that is part of my point, the game being played by politically motived activists that applies immense pressure to their peers.

From the other perspective, whatever Darcy personally thinks of some pronoun places zero obligation on me or any other commentator, it's completely untenable for 7 billion people all to have a custom label. Some will just have to put up with having a label they do not like, and choosing an obscure label that doesn't match your outward appearance just sets you up for a world of pain. Having a position of privilege doesn't change that, Darcy's solution is untenable for 99.9999% of people, it is a solution for the privileged!

It's equally likely for some individuals to take offense at being labelled "them or they", rather than "her or she", this is were the absurdity of the request is exposed, it implies "we" like all share Darcy's opinion!

[kruddler]

Interesting you use that term "play", that is part of my point, the game being played by politically motived activists that applies immense pressure to their peers.

From the other perspective, whatever Darcy personally thinks of some pronoun places zero obligation on me or any other commentator, it's completely untenable for 7 billion people all to have a custom label. Some will just have to put up with having a label they do not like, and choosing an obscure label that doesn't match your outward appearance just sets you up for a world of pain. Having a position of privilege doesn't change that, Darcy's solution is untenable for 99.9999% of people, it is a solution for the privileged!

It's equally likely for some individuals to take offense at being labelled "them or they", rather than "her or she", this is were the absurdity of the request is exposed, it implies "we" like all share Darcy's opinion!

The word 'play' was deliberate, because you seem to think this is simply a game and forget peoples lives are being affected by this.

No, it doesn't mean you have to listen to Darcy's wishes. It also doesn't mean you have to be arrogant enough to ignore them for.....whatever half-ar$ed reason you seem to want to come up with.
The effect her request has on you (and others)......negligible.
The effect your ignorance has on Darcy (and specifically others)....much more damning.


Look, you do what you want, but you seem to be doing it for spite from where i sit and i don't get why.

[LP]

It will be interesting to see how this young girl gets treated.

AFLW player Haneen Zreika will not be named in the Giants’ team to play against the Western Bulldogs on Friday night after deciding she could not wear the club’s pride jumper for religious reasons.

I'm pegging she will suffer as much if not more vitriol and derision coming her way as goes the other, but in this regard it will be different, because it'll come from a vocal minority that claims tolerance and acceptance!

Will her career fade away ................. cancelled?

Why have I've become so cynical?

[madbluboy]

If she was Christian her career would already be over.