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Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021.
#71
Cap - one of my facebook friends who is a Kiwi, but living in Qld has a view that is very different to mine regarding general health matters, let alone vaccines.  She and her cronies will post every person that has a side effect, re-post about the 450k that protested in Melbourne (yep - 450k - not a possible number) and they are lauding Pauline at the moment re her discrimination bill.

They also vote.  It is really scary how little they know of how Australia legally works - Constitutionally, Government (why doesn't the PM just have the power to change this) down to how people are elected.
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#72
I know a couple of people in the medical fraternity who are dead against mandatory vaccination and sceptical of being vaccinated at all. I am fully vaccinated and I struggle to understand them, as it sounds like they are acting from a deep conviction rather than from any actual evidence evaluation or risk assessment.
Reality always wins in the end.
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#73
(11-23-2021, 12:06 AM)capcom date Wrote:[member=61]Baggers[/member] .... agree.  Reckon it's gone way pasty petty and now into some really nasty exchanges between people who can't possibly represent the opinions of their electorates.  Take that to read "on whose behalf are you speaking?" 
I suppose the electorates are divided, but perhaps not as divided as the minority wish you to believe!

I was quite surprised to see Scomo head-kicking some of his lackies who had been poking around the protests looking for an ear. Because isn't it really how he got into power in the first place, behaving the very way he now has developed a disdain for!

So the question is, how do you deal with politicians and public servants who play minority politics, when will they start representing the majority?
"Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck ....... Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck"
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#74
(11-23-2021, 12:53 AM)cookie2 date Wrote:I know a couple of people in the medical fraternity who are dead against mandatory vaccination and sceptical of being vaccinated at all. I am fully vaccinated and I struggle to understand them, as it sounds like they are acting from a deep conviction rather than from any actual evidence evaluation or risk assessment.
If we start from the presumption that all health workers wish to "Do no harm", I can understand some are reticent. But is that concern misplaced, can the vaccine ever really do any more harm than Sars-CoV-2?

Is there also a perception of potential liability? I know a few who are very sceptical regarding to Scomo's moves to ensure health workers are protected from predatory lawyers, there are always loopholes and exceptions.

There are also worries that compulsory vaccination creates a more dangerous workplace, it is not hard to see why this would be the case, but is this also misplaced / misunderstood risk?
"Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck ....... Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck"
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#75
(11-19-2021, 01:13 PM)DJC link Wrote:One of the scumbags opposing the Bill assaulted Andy Meddick's daughter and she ended up getting stitches in a headwound. 

Four days later and Andy Meddick has still not apologised for making up stories about the reason his daughter was attacked in the street.

But it doesn’t really matter because the Animal Justice Party MP has already done the damage – to unfairly smear those who oppose the pandemic Bill as violent thugs.

As we all know, Meddick claimed on Friday that after his daughter, Kielan, was taken to hospital with a gash on her head.

He had “reason to believe that this could be linked to my role as an MP and the positions I have taken on the pandemic response”.

Just one problem. Police believe she was graffitiing over a poster on Smith St in Fitzroy – hardly a hotbed of right-wing thought – when a man started an argument with her about it.

She threw her spray can at the man, police said, and he threw it back – hitting her head.

There is no doubt that no one should have a spray can hurled at the back of his or her head.

Nor should that person throw it at someone else in the first place.

But for the victim’s father to frame the attack in a political light before all the facts were known is unfortunate at best and misrepresentation for political gain at worst.

The Meddicks hoodwinked everyone from the Prime Minister down.

“This is not just an attack on an innocent person but an attack on our very democracy,” Scott Morrison wrote.

Opposition leader Matthew Guy said to “target an MP’s family in this way is sickening”.

By the time Meddick went on ABC radio on Friday afternoon to quietly walk back his earlier statement – without an apology for jumping the gun – the damage was done.

There has been a concerted effort from proponents of the pandemic Bill to cast all opponents and all the hundreds of thousands of people who have protested as violent extremists.

They do this by highlighting a handful of dopes and fringe-dwellers, such as those whole rolled our nooses and gallows, and attaching their moronic actions to the rest of the crowd.

Politicians, including Meddick, have also received personal threats – and they must be condemned in the strongest terms.

But to attach that behaviour to the broader group of normal Victorians who are concerned about giving the premier dictatorial power is a devious way to silence their arguments.

A supposedly political attack on Meddick’s daughter was the transition from threats to physical violence – and thus great fuel to the fire for proponents of the Bill.

How many people would recognise Meddick in the street, let alone his daughter?

He should have been more worried that his daughter recovering than he was about the supposed motivation of the attack.

She shouldn’t have been assaulted and his father shouldn’t have been putting out media releases saying he was the reason behind it.

He, regrettably, made this a political issue.

But if this isn’t about politics, that apology should be forthcoming.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!
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#76
.... and the toll on all of us continues
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#77
(11-23-2021, 12:53 AM)cookie2 link Wrote:I know a couple of people in the medical fraternity who are dead against mandatory vaccination and sceptical of being vaccinated at all. I am fully vaccinated and I struggle to understand them, as it sounds like they are acting from a deep conviction rather than from any actual evidence evaluation or risk assessment.

I think its tricky to know unless you get up close and personal with how these places actually operate (particularly during the pandemic).

As someone who has worked at 2 different health services in Melbourne, and has seen the nature of how these places are governed, what happens in regards to accreditation, their requirements, and the mountain of work that people go through to tick the boxes at the final moments, rather than implementing proper processes to meet those requirements more frequently, it starts to become clearer.

That and the fact that people seem to think that the political and CHO response is above criticism.  Its entirely possible that not everyone in the medical fraternity is in agreement from top to bottom, and some of these people possibly know more than the lay person.

I decided a long time ago, that I dont know enough about all of this to really have a good grasp on whats required or not, and one thing I did realise, that if people in the know are skeptical, then people outside of the know, have every right to be which tells a story in itself.

Are things happening in the public goods best interest or not, seems to be subjective, which is a worry of itself.







"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson
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#78
@Thry

We live in an age of propaganda, fake news, double speak and downright lies. Getting at the truth is often not that easy.
Reality always wins in the end.
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#79
(11-23-2021, 04:19 AM)cookie2 date Wrote:@Thry

We live in an age of propaganda, fake news, double speak and downright lies. Getting at the truth is often not that easy.
Then you add in confirmation bias and motivated reasoning and all sorts of weird shizen seems to fall into place for those susceptible to influence, which is basically all of us in one forum or another!

It's tough has hell for anybody to find the absolute truth, but what you can do far more easily and often just by some careful consideration, is find out what isn't the truth!
"Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck ....... Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck"
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#80
(11-23-2021, 05:20 AM)LP link Wrote:Then you add in confirmation bias and motivated reasoning and all sorts of weird shizen seems to fall into place for those susceptible to influence, which is basically all of us in one forum or another!

It's tough has hell for anybody to find the absolute truth, but what you can do far more easily and often just by some careful consideration, is find out what isn't the truth!

While we’re  doing that we just have to be careful the truth doesn’t come and bite us on the ar$e.
Reality always wins in the end.
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