The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread

[LP]

I see Tesla is being sued by the Federal Regulator for failing to deliver on the promised performance of the "The Big Battery", ........ why am I not surprised?

This won't be the first Green Energy "base load" solution that is found to be somewhat rubbery, like many cheap solar panels they will promise physical law defying performance, that unforeseen by any green energy executive or salesperson falls somewhat short of expectation in the longer term.

In the mean time SA can keep piping in NSW and Vic coal based base load by the carbon rich tonne, as they say in the sausage maker state, NIMBY!

Bring on nuclear, clean green base load 24x7, that can when paired with the appropriate desalination plant provide cheap clean drinking water by the gigalitre, and soon well have plenty of locally trained retiring naval officers looking for a nuclear energy job! We can sell it to SA and Tassie at thrice the price it costs to make!

Sub base at Hastings, Mornington or Swan Island anyone?

Win Win! ;D

[capcom]

Elon Sucks

[PaulP]

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/o...is-rubbish

Certainly gave me a chuckle.

[LP]

Interesting though there are rumours of a breaking story that is going to pull apart the dirty side of clean energy, I'm not surprised.

Like with any fanatical effort it sounds like some of the Clean Energy / Renewable Apparatchiks have been gilding the lily to push their case, I'm not surprised big money is at stake.

Through work I've been through some facilities in China that make solar as well as big batteries, and I've always said that I think the concept of clean renewable energy only persists because it is clean in my backyard. It is NIMBY clean, especially for the EU Inspectors. The Chinese have showroom factories that look like operating theatres and get the tick of approval from the EU inspectors, those facilities are always down for maintenance or testing a bespoke small product run when inspectors visit. A few kilometres down the road or in the next town over is the sweatshop bucket chemistry facility that churns out the bulk of the 'clean green product' in mass manufacturing conditions that are an entirely different kettle of blackened fish! :o

[Thryleon]

Yep.  There is often creative accounting used with Green energy.

I think its fundamentally a good idea, but the efficiency of most green energy sources just isnt high enough to offset the total manufacturing and disposal process.

We keep kyboshing Nuclear, but you can get a lot of fuel out of a much smaller amount of it mined, with very small amount of waste, and if the same amount of energy went into funding research into better waste recycling, we might get a lot further.

Its in its infancy, but nuclear waste is starting to find its ways into batteries that can be used safely in a pacemaker and run it for a very long time. 

[LP]

We keep kyboshing Nuclear, but you can get a lot of fuel out of a much smaller amount of it mined, with very small amount of waste, and if the same amount of energy went into funding research into better waste recycling, we might get a lot further.

Note France just announced a new generation of what they are describing as small nuclear. I suspect it will be based on pebble bed reactors that are just big enough to run a suburb, do not need cooling and are basically a disaster / attack hardened battery the size of a house that lasts for decades running a single suburb. As an aside I've seen plans for Japanese units the size of a large garden shed / shipping container that can be helicoptered into various disaster zones and supply power for months or years until the rebuild of services are complete.

I assert the timing of the French announcement, our purchasing nuclear subs and our outstanding / cancelled contract with France are not a coincidence! What is the chance that contract is replaced with a good faith commitment for $90B worth of small nuclear facilities?

[PaulP]

Whether clean energy is as clean as its proponents make out is only of peripheral interest. It's way better that coal and the technologies currently in use. This line of argumentation leads very quickly and easily to inaction.

Clean energy is only one piece of the jigsaw puzzle. One needs to consider transport, building construction and other aspects as well.

[LP]

Whether clean energy is as clean as its proponents make out is only of peripheral interest. It's way better that coal and the technologies currently in use. This line of argumentation leads very quickly and easily to inaction.

Clean energy is only one piece of the jigsaw puzzle. One needs to consider transport, building construction and other aspects as well.

In segments of this debate there can be significant differences between clean and zero carbon.

My major objection is that what we call 'clean' isn't really so clean, and I get the hypocrisy of the 'clean energy' movement labelling some genuine zero carbon alternatives dirty, they seem to lack a mirror!

Clean relative to coal isn't so hard, clean relative to other forms of clean can be a real challenge!

I suspect a great way to identify an energy apparatchik is to find they advocate one size fits all!

Many of us are here today because of ANSTO, we've either been treated, scanned or traced using radioisotopes produced in Sydney. A facility the green clean energy movement want closed as a dirty relic of the past, yet inside it is cutting edge, far more modern than any major solar cell production facility!

[capcom]

When the CSIRO says the cost is one trillion to transition to 100% clean, pretty simple equation.  You don't

[PaulP]

Renewable is a better word than clean. I'm not sure where "clean" comes from. It is actually renewable. No form of energy is clean, but some are certainly cleaner than others.