CV and mad panic behaviour

[capcom]

Child comes first

[Thryleon]

Perhaps you could direct that comment to anti-vaxxers who, not content with having their views, seek to harm the general community with their actions.

I suggest that people holding " freedom marches" without wearing masks, deliberately making vaccination appointments with no intention of attending, and, on a personal note, a group forcing the closure of a local eye surgery last Thursday by refusing to wear masks, are the ones contributing to the social divide.

I'm directing my comment to everyone.
This transcends a rather temporary moment in time to do with a pandemic response.

https://www.abc.net.au/religion/human-ri...s/13577278

This article is incredibly well written, and there are quite a lot of people that need to take a good hard look at themselves with the sorts of vitriol that comes out of their mouths, both pro and anti. 

Possible implications of mandatory vaccination

Mandatory vaccination has significant implications for human rights and the nature of government power which need to be clearly understood. For a start, it has implications for the nature of consent, which is the centrepiece of our society’s public sexual morality. This norm dictates that sexual activity must only be engaged in with each party’s free and willing consent. Section 10© of the Charter Act mirrors this by stating that a person must not be subjected to medical treatment without his or her full, free, and informed consent.

Despite this clear requirement for free consent, the foreshadowed vaccine mandate means any person working in Victoria will need to be vaccinated, regardless of their personal views, subject to the threat of losing one’s livelihood if a person fails to comply. This arguably poses an alarming precedent. Does this mean that reluctant compliance given under sufferance is now sufficient to constitute consent? Does consent now include compliance under the threat of harm?

Bodily autonomy is another highly important value in the modern West. The concept of autonomy dictates that all people are free to deal with their bodies as they wish, free from control or coercion by another, and underlies such things as abortion and transgender rights. However, if a person can be forced against his or her will to be vaccinated for the common good, does this signal an erosion of bodily autonomy?

Mandatory vaccination signals that there is no area of life exempt from political and governmental control. Even fundamental questions of human autonomy and bodily integrity are now subject to regulation by the state — in this case, by executive order.

Finally, compulsory vaccination treats the decision as to whether to be vaccinated or not as a decision that needs to be made on our behalf by others. Every problem in society is a technocratic problem for governments and experts to solve. This effectively infantilises the population, treating people as if they cannot be trusted to make responsible decisions. And yet democracy is predicated on the principle of popular sovereignty, the idea that parliamentarians and the government are elected by and accountable to the people. We can be trusted to determine who will govern us but not fundamental questions of our own bodily integrity.

Many will agree with compulsory vaccination, but this sets a precedent of government control which is unlikely to stop with vaccination.

Benjamin Saunders is a Senior Lecturer at Deakin Law School.

This is on many levels, not the right way to do this.

Where is the education on this subject for those who wish to remain unvaccinated?

Why are they being hit at their comply or else? 

Is this the world you want to live in, where people force you to do things, or else you are out of a job, out of medicare, out of education for your children and yet this is where you have lived your life paying taxes and electing people to protect these very fundamental aspects of modern society?

I know people who are otherwise upstanding citizens, who have a family, and are now looking at the prospect of taking a vaccine under duress, because they dont know how they are going to put food on the table, and both parents are going to be out of work.

Rather than poke fun at these people, accuse them of causing the pandemic that we find ourselves in, education, and empathy are the better path to this, because very soon we are going to have a family of 5 on the streets, because they are renting, and not able to earn an income, not able to work even though both are gainfully employed, and the only way out is to take a needle that they dont see the value in taking because our government has failed to simply educate people on the benefits of doing so.

The amount of misinformation that proliferates out there is mindboggling, and we can see the divide on this very forum.  I took a brief hiatus because of one vitriolic poster who seems very disconnected from the real world.  Irrespective, I decided that taking a stop from the forum was a break I needed, but you dont make an impact sitting on the sidelines.



We have a very polarising thing going on, but I've stated this on numerous occasions, the quickest way to lose a lot of people who are truly unsure of whether or not this is the right thing to do, is mandate a response, at the threat of loss of lives and livelihood.  The biggest issue that it creates?  Next time, where this is actually the right thing to do, you are going to have a lot of people that just dont see the merit in it, particularly when you hear stories of 16 year old girls going to hospital with heart problems within 48 hours of being vaccinated. 

[Mav]

Vaxxed patients get symptoms and run to ERs too, chest pains mean ECGs and blood tests from over anxious just vaxxed are clogging up the system.
Vaxxed patients don't die but still clog the system when they present to ED with a runny nose and want reassurance.

Chalk up another win for anti-vaxxer disinformation ...

[ElwoodBlues1]

Chalk up another win for anti-vaxxer disinformation ...

Not about vaxxed or non vaxxed it's about providing extra resources for a already stretched health system and what a large uptake in cases will mean and how it affects the man in the street expecting normal services. Its about kids getting proper heath care and not a vaxxed vs non vaxxed scorecard which you seem to be wanting.
The Governments including State and Federal need to provide resources rather than planning
how many planes we can get up and running or cruise ships..

[Mav]

Thryleon, that’s 1 guy’s legal opinion and when cases come to court they are matched by an opposing legal submission which will also be incredibly well written and perhaps even more so. This is the sort of dispute that’s currently being heard by the NSW Supreme Court. When decisions start coming out of superior courts, we’ll have the answer about the legal enforceability of vaccine mandates.

Let’s acknowledge that no one will be physically or even legally forced to take the vaccine. Suggestions to the contrary are pure rhetoric. Like it or not, that’s a pretty major factor in challenging vaccine mandates.

As for blaming a failure of governments to educate, the old saying is apt: “A lie gets halfway around the world before truth puts on its boots”. No government has found a way to counter the firehouse of lies and disinformation through social media. Imagine how hard it would be for a regional government to fund an education campaign that would target its electorate as comprehensively as global anti-vaxxer propaganda. No doubt Government websites throughout Australia would educate anyone who bothers to access them. The media has educated the public via extensive interviews with epidemiologists and doctors. How do you educate someone who doesn't watch those interviews but instead binge-watches antivax propaganda promoted by algorithms whose sole aim is to keep people engaged with its site's content? 

[LP]

How do you educate someone who doesn't watch those interviews but instead binge-watches antivax propaganda promoted by algorithms whose sole aim is to keep people engaged with its site's content?

This is a fundamental problem with social media, which is why globally many governments are starting to look into the way they do business, the governments are trying to address social media's complete lack accountability!

I notice some mainstream media is getting on this bandwagon as well, but there will be political hurdles, some want the freedom to publish whatever they like with impunity!

It is why I've always offered the opinion that you should be very careful what you publish on the internet, no matter what some may naively think it never goes away, delete is not always gone!

[Mav]

Child comes first

You'd think so, wouldn't you ...

The last time I went to an ED, it was because I managed to drop something really heavy on my foot and my foot blew up inside my steelcapped boot. I thought it may be broken but X-Rays showed later that this wasn't the case. While I was waiting, the nurse would periodically come up and ask whether there was any pain but I reiterated it only hurt to walk and otherwise I had hardly any pain. Meanwhile, a steady flow of other patients came in. One guy had cut his hand open with an angle grinder and had it wrapped up with a bloody cloth. I thought for sure he'd jump ahead of me and I wouldn't have had any problem with that. But I was called up before him. That made me wonder about the triage system!

[LP]

That made me wonder about the triage system!

A relative was waiting for a scan having been diagnosed with cancer by some biopsy or blood test, sitting in the queue at Epworth for hours on end he was next in the line when he got bumped to the next day, so CA could get an immediate scan on Steve Waugh's hammy.

I'm not blaming Waugh, it's not his fault it is the system!

[Mav]

I took a brief hiatus because of one vitriolic poster who seems very disconnected from the real world.  Irrespective, I decided that taking a stop from the forum was a break I needed, but you dont make an impact sitting on the sidelines.

I know how you feel! I had 1 vitriolic poster suggesting I was the type who would have handed over Jewish people in Hitler's Germany for extermination. Can you believe that? It's hard to think of anything more vile, vitriolic and despicable than invoking the holocaust in that way. You'd think someone like that should have spent a bit of time reflecting on his behaviour.

[LP]

There is a lot of broad assumption that goes on around this Sars-CoV-2 event, mostly it's people with a little bit of information filling in the blanks.

I had an associate rant at me about Dictator Dan over the weekend, on and on he went in a foul mood because one of our favourite specialty retailers has decided to close it's door for good. My associate was adamant it was all because of the economic damage wrought from an "unending chain of spurious lockdowns", very colourful emotive language.

But meaningless language in the light of the true situation, Sars-CoV-2 is a cause but not what people think. The business owners are older approaching retirement age but not yet ready to retire, two lovely people but they both have some significant underlying health issues. They care about the customers and do not want to keep the business at arms length, and they do not want to disrespect their customers by failing to deliver the accepted level of service. So they've change the business model and will get out of face to face retail to keep themselves safe and still deliver high quality products and service but now purely from online trading. The business isn't suffering at all, in fact as it expands into online it's thriving, the change away from physical retail is just a rational tactical move that will hopefully see them safely into retirement.

But my associate won't have a bar of that, it's all Dictator Dan's fault, the pandemic itself has little to do with it.