Wimbeldon 2021

[PaulP]

I think the term Champion is too easily issued by the media, for me to be a Champion you need the whole package, you can't win on court but be an a55hole everywhere else and still be a Champion! McEnroe winner but not Champion, Federer winner and Champion, Nadal winner and Champion??, Connors winner but not Champion, after her Naomi Osaka dummy spit I'm not sure Serena Williams is a Champion.

I suppose if all fans care about is winning and not how a sport's role model will conduct themselves then they are all Champions, but it's clear then we  as fans do not hold them all to the same standard. Which seems hypocritical when we lambaste them at other times for human foibles. 

So I'd assert the Champion moniker is far too easily issued, winners no doubt, Champions well it perhaps depends on personal values.

I appreciate all that. But as I stated previously, it's important to at least try and look at the big picture. He's played thousands of matches over his career, how many timeouts has he called for ? Are they all fake ? Look at his charity work. Look at the work in setting up a new players union that gets a better deal for players. It's not really about just focussing on the on field and turning a blind eye to the off field stuff. On the court and off, he mixes the very good with the questionable IMO, but taking all that into account, he's still a champion in my eyes.

[LP]

Look at his charity work. Look at the work in setting up a new players union that gets a better deal for players.

Not fake at all.

But I fear and think you give players too much credit for this, they barely get within arms length of these activities, they are mostly PR exercises setup by the players management group.

For example, I know a very high level AFL player who has appeared in print regularly touted for his Children's Hospital Charity work, but behind the scenes he barely turns up for 1 out of 10 commitments. His club just keeps making excuses for him, the media don't care so they never expose the contradiction.

[PaulP]

Not fake at all.

But I fear and think you give players too much credit for this, they barely get within arms length of these activities, they are mostly PR exercises setup by the players management group.

.......................................................................................

All that empathy I carry around - it's a real curse I tell ya.

The fact that he set it up, and it bears his name, and donates time and money to it, is at the very least a start. As a pro tennis player, I imagine his schedule is pretty full.

[Thryleon]

Definition of champion:
1.  A person who has surpassed all rivals in a sporting contest or other competition.

By defintion, Novak isnt a champion yet, because he just joined Rafa and Roger on 20 slams each.

Note, Sampras was the last Tennis champion by definition on 14 slams.

If these guys arent champions there is no such animal.

irrespective of what anyone thinks of these guys, they all currently qualify as the GOAT of their respective of sport.

They are by very definition champions.

[LP]

All that empathy I carry around - it's a real curse I tell ya.

The fact that he set it up, and it bears his name, and donates time and money to it, is at the very least a start. As a pro tennis player, I imagine his schedule is pretty full.

You post like they are individuals, when in reality many at that level are really an organisation.

In my experience, most of the charities are setup by sponsors, sponsors that pay the sport's star very well, and charities to which the sportsperson gets to attached their name with very little input. It's nowhere near as magnanimous as you seem to imply.

Perhaps I'm just not as forgiving as yourself.

I appreciate it's not a global perspective I hold, there are significant charitable activities conducted by sporting greats across the globe, but that does not mean they are all so inclined even though they may well be attracted to the notoriety.

Let them eat cake!

[Baggers]

All that empathy I carry around - it's a real curse I tell ya.

Nuh. Great attribute, Pauly.

Dare I say that empathy is a 'champion' human trait?   

[capcom]

"Champion" is a pretty cheap tag to throw around in any sport, but especially tennis.  Excluding Court and Borg IMO.  They were incredible.

[PaulP]

Nuh. Great attribute, Pauly.

Dare I say that empathy is a 'champion' human trait?   

Thanks Shano. You're much too kind.