Post Game Frustrations: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

[ElwoodBlues1]

Dow had his career ruined early on when he was thrown into the heat of the action rather than getting to perform lesser roles as he developed. Killed his confidence. Did him no good. not all are Sam Walsh's and hit it right away.

GWS must have got lucky with Taranto, Hopper, Perryman and Green then......I know Walsh is a standout player but there is just miles between Dow,LOB and the GWS kids for example.

[dodge]

I didn't watch much of the game - late 2nd qtr and some of the third.  Sadly, learning a new accounting system was a better option (and this one is complicated for my little head)!  I am surprised that we only lost by 6 goals (only looked it up now to see the margin)

I think the nature of the loss gets rid of some of the paper covering the cracks - we think we are OK because we're only losing by 4 goals every week, and if we keep persevering we'll get there eventually.  We want eventually to be now.

I see us toil away for goals time and time again, just for the opposition to score easy ones.  Yes, we look good when we have a run on, but that's once a game and we fade quickly.

We don't seem to play for each other and don't seem to be a great team.  How do you build a team in a club that has had so much change that everyone is looking over their shoulder.  To build a team, there must be a culture.  Our culture is yoghurt.  Something smelly and disgusting!

Brisbane has built culture, Richmond has built culture, North will be building culture, Sydney has one etc. We will languish until this is established.  We know what happened to Fisher - finishing on 99 games.  I don't think it is a great message to say that Murph is not guaranteed 300 games - will only get picked if worthy.  Tells me that we aren't really looking after our players that well.  Negative message that filters down the club.  (I get that some don't like Murph, and are happy hearing that he may not get to 300) - 
what about - we are working with Murph at the moment to help him get to 300 games - it will be a great achievement for him to get there.

ps how good was Toby's torp on half time - amazing kick.

[PaulP]

GWS must have got lucky with Taranto, Hopper, Perryman and Green then......I know Walsh is a standout player but there is just miles between Dow,LOB and the GWS kids for example.

I agree. Dow's confidence is no better or worse than most of his team mates. If his confidence was shot from early exposure, then how do we account for his low confidence mates ? Just being at Carlton would do it to you I reckon.

[Macca37]

I like Dow and want him to succeed as he has all the attributes of the modern mid in terms of size, pace, and he does attack the ball well but he just cant seem to stay composed enough or make the right decisions often enough.
Unlike his U18 days he also cant find the footy enough..
Is it the coaching, is it the lack of leadership/support from other mids?....why is Walsh excelling yet Paddy and LOB look in another dimension as far as how they play.
You want to offer him more time/games and maybe with new coaches in the box he will improve but to do that we have to get better support in the middle other than just Cripps and another kid in Walsh. Apologies to Ed and Matt Kennedy but they are limited players who are good soldiers but we need Dow becoming a General like Walsh.
You look at Hopper, Taranto and Tom Green and Dow looks like a novice still, there is only so long you can persist and hope..

I want Dow to succeed, but I don't see him ever being more than an average player.  I have always wondered why we selected him when it was well known that his disposal by foot was below average.

It hasn't improved and he knows it.  With the speed of AFL requiring quicker decision making I have seen his hesitation when he looks to handball instead of kicking because he can't trust his ability to hit a target.

[ElwoodBlues1]

Its interesting to compare Luke Davies Uniake and Paddy Dow...both were hot property in their draft year, both dominant at U18 level and both have struggled at senior level. Their stats in terms of disposals at senior level are about the same and their kicking isnt their strong point. LDU is marginally better placed than Dow in terms of the future IMO but is it just the case of two crap clubs unable to develop talent or did both clubs just get it wrong with their selections?

[laj]

GWS must have got lucky with Taranto, Hopper, Perryman and Green then......I know Walsh is a standout player but there is just miles between Dow,LOB and the GWS kids for example.

Not every one is the same. We did nothing for his development early on. Now if he was with a good club that develops well how would have it turned out. If he was Richmondised. GWSised instead of Carltonised it may well have been alot different.

How would those others have gone in a crappy team where they were chucked to the wolves early in their career rather than have a very deep midfield allowing them to develop in lesser roles. Could have struggled too. Maybe if Dow was recruited by GWS with that deep midfield and allowed to properly develop he may well have been a star like in the U18's. We won't know but it is a very good question.

[laj]

Its interesting to compare Luke Davies Uniake and Paddy Dow...both were hot property in their draft year, both dominant at U18 level and both have struggled at senior level. Their stats in terms of disposals at senior level are about the same and their kicking isnt their strong point. LDU is marginally better placed than Dow in terms of the future IMO but is it just the case of two crap clubs unable to develop talent or did both clubs just get it wrong with their selections?

Those two plus Rainer were standouts in the under 18s. We didn't didn't take Dow he would've been snapped up at 4. We did a 5hit job at developing him.

[blueboys_1]

Some of our defenders don't want to defend, it's not even a case of intenstity.
We have too many chasing the easy kick or standing around guarding grass.
They are never near their opponent and give up easily when their opponent leads hard.
Jones and Weitering excepted even though Jones over commits at times.
Parks is a VFL defender, having him on anyone decent is a nightmare waiting to happen. Swans didn't want him with good reason...
The lack of physicality is alarming and has led to this bruise free brand we play.
Being out muscled by a soft bunch like GWS is about as bad as it gets when everyone knows they are a team that doesn't like it hard. Speaking of hard I saw SPS pull up in another contest in the VFL and Murphy was doing his best to avoid contact as well.
Every player we bring to the club now has to be one that enjoys contesting, is disciplined, a decent size and comes ready to play.
No more little kids or pretty players who want dance around the edges and leave everything to players like Walsh.

Stoker anyone. And where is he played!!

[Gointocarlton]

The last 3 weeks have really shone a light on where we are and there can be NO hiding from it - for the Board, the Exec, the Football Dept and the Players [especially the Leadership Group].

We were sitting 12th at 4 wins and 6 losses but coming off a win. About to play the teams sitting 6th, 7th and 8th at the time. All 3 of those teams had been inconsistent to date [like us]. Our season well and truly on the line and about to hit the road together. The club [and the whole rebuild] about to be face it's most serious examination. A few players coming back from injury so absolutely no excuses and no where to hide.

The total and abject failure of the Coaches and the Senior Players over the last 4 weeks has been staggering. I have watched it all up close live. The overall performance has been insipid and lacking in every department - no one should be above scrutiny such has been the scale of the capitulation. The problems are deep seated and wide spread, and we have effectively shown zero improvement or progress despite years or rebuilding. Our strategy and game plan [if we had one] has utterly failed and shown to be fraudulent at the first real test. Just like it had done in the 6 earlier games against decent football teams. It should shake the very foundations of the club, starting with the Board.

Analysing the  individual players is pointless as the problem is existential - what does the Club, and this playing group, stand for? At the moment this is not clear. Winning games of football, competitiveness, hunger for success, uncompromising effort, and having the respect of your opponents [both individually and collectively] for how hard you are to play SHOULD be our core Mission - but right now we have none of this as a collective. They look lost, they play without hunger or heart, and they look like they don't even care that they don't have any of those things. The Club and the Playing group have zero respect.

From the outside looking in it is impossible to know what the internal assessment is of where they are at, their acceptance of the problems and how they think that they will address it and try and turn it around. In professional sport when the pressure comes the Coach is always the first one in the cross hairs and this will be no different. He is ultimately responsible for the wins and losses and the overall effort and attitude of the team. Right now that is deplorable, and nothing Teague has said or done over the last 4 weeks gives me any hope that things will change next week or over the next 8 weeks. Some might think that harsh, and that we are going back to the poisoned well looking for a messiah, but keeping on doing the same thing and expecting a different result is madness.

Review over, send them an invoice.
PS Youre hired.

[Gointocarlton]

Its interesting to compare Luke Davies Uniake and Paddy Dow...both were hot property in their draft year, both dominant at U18 level and both have struggled at senior level. Their stats in terms of disposals at senior level are about the same and their kicking isnt their strong point. LDU is marginally better placed than Dow in terms of the future IMO but is it just the case of two crap clubs unable to develop talent or did both clubs just get it wrong with their selections?

Both at shit clubs with poor development coaches, there's your common denominator.