Pre game Premonitions: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

[ElwoodBlues1]

The list is lacking in midfield depth, we don't have enough good mids after Cripps and Walsh. The Williams cheat with a half back flanker as a mid move has bombed and its
back to the drawing board.
A class deep midfield fixes a lot of problems.. better delivery down forward and less pressure on your back line.
We are going nowhere until we get the midfield sorted... A review isn't going to fix that..

[LP]

The Williams cheat with a half back flanker as a mid move has bombed and its back to the drawing board.

Although this might become true in the longer term, I feel it's way too early to call right now just as it is too early to make a call on the kids.

Williams has shown some midfield class and grunt, but in previous attempts he did so in the blind well before opposition scrutiny and before he had to deal with specific opposition tactics to counter his game. He's a midfield beginner, but that doesn't mean he won't make it as a midfielder. The money doesn't mean much, and it certainly doesn't mean you're the finished product.

Cripps for example can still barely hit the ball with his left foot, he's like a footy beginner when they make him turn onto his left.

[blueboys_1]

At least we have pittonet. The only big bloke we've had show aggression for decades.
He's not quite up to the same class as mummy, but he won't let himself or his team-mates get bullied

I reckon you can add Stocker to that list. Have not seen him take a backward step, throws himself in and does not take crap from anybody.

[Thryleon]

The list is lacking in midfield depth, we don't have enough good mids after Cripps and Walsh. The Williams cheat with a half back flanker as a mid move has bombed and its
back to the drawing board.
A class deep midfield fixes a lot of problems.. better delivery down forward and less pressure on your back line.
We are going nowhere until we get the midfield sorted... A review isn't going to fix that..

I was looking further down the pecking order, even ignoring the likes of Dow, SPS, LOB.  Looking at Philp, Ramsay, Honey, Carroll, kemp.  I think we are still looking 2-4 years away and if they come on early, great.  I dont see us cutting too deeply from here.  We will move on older types, cheat with some of them in roles where they are less likely, and then go from there IMHO.

The Williams, Fogarty, Saad experience was a very much now purchase, to ease up the pressure on the youngsters that have shown something, and are yet to get a go.  We will see more of them as the season slips away and we are going through the motions and will be pleasantly surprised IMHO. 

[ElwoodBlues1]

Although this might become true in the longer term, I feel it's way too early to call right now just as it is too early to make a call on the kids.

Williams has shown some midfield class and grunt, but in previous attempts he did so in the blind well before opposition scrutiny and before he had to deal with specific opposition tactics to counter his game. He's a midfield beginner, but that doesn't mean he won't make it as a midfielder. The money doesn't mean much, and it certainly doesn't mean you're the finished product.

Cripps for example can still barely hit the ball with his left foot, he's like a footy beginner when they make him turn onto his left.

Collingwood run their  half back rebounder Crisp through the middle but do it sparingly and usually later in the game when they want a lift and some extra zip.
This is how Williams should be used, he just doesnt get enough of the ball if used in the middle in a FT role IMO. His form down back has been better and its obvious he prefers that role and is better at it. With us he has to be a prime mover unlike when he had a run through the middle with GWS who had midfield talent on tap and he was just cream on the cake.
We have tried this cheating with players in different positions for years and its always a fail....Hampson, Kruezer as forwards, then we had Walker doing every job bar rucking even though he was an excellent winger.
But thats the domain of struggling teams who have to patch holes and usually to the detriment of the players concerned who do the patching.
We need 2-3 quality readymade mids and life will get better for the coach, players and long suffering supporters....

[LP]

This is how Williams should be used, he just doesnt get enough of the ball if used in the middle in a FT role IMO. His form down back has been better and its obvious he prefers that role and is better at it.

I think it is still a "so far" on the bold bit.

In fairness to Williams, we've spent much time in various threads discussing our club playing him and others injured, he is obviously one on the list that doesn't look 100%, yet fans want to pull the pin on his development, maybe rightly so for now as his development is probably hindered anyway.

As for the HBF, I think it's obvious he plays better on the HBF given it's a role he knows well, and even more so given he seems to be carrying that injury he can probably play in autopilot.

I doubt any of that says much about his ability to eventually play through the midfield.

[kruddler]

Yes Williams isn't fit.
Don't judge someone until you see them with a good pre-season under their belt.

[flyboy77]

I was looking further down the pecking order, even ignoring the likes of Dow, SPS, LOB.  Looking at Philp, Ramsay, Honey, Carroll, kemp.  I think we are still looking 2-4 years away and if they come on early, great.  I dont see us cutting too deeply from here.  We will move on older types, cheat with some of them in roles where they are less likely, and then go from there IMHO.

The Williams, Fogarty, Saad experience was a very much now purchase, to ease up the pressure on the youngsters that have shown something, and are yet to get a go.  We will see more of them as the season slips away and we are going through the motions and will be pleasantly surprised IMHO. 

One quality mid coming in and two of the kids stepping up....

Established mids - Merrett (better numbers than Josh Kelly), Cam Guthrie, the Swans' Hewett and Luke Parker.

Coming out of conrtact in 2022 (therefore gettable) - I like the way Ben Keays has really come on at the Crows, Steele Sidebottom?, Perryman, Taranto, Cunnington, even Lambert at the Tiges would be RFA. Ditto Jack Steele.

Dunkley and Smith at the Dogs....

Or Crippa returning to 80% of his best.

[Gointocarlton]

Yes Williams isn't fit.
Don't judge someone until you see them with a good pre-season under their belt.

Agree but he did have good preseason didn't he? IMO opinion, he hasn't been the same since the suspension just before round 1. He needs a chance to settle into the way we play for sure, but I haven't been impressed with what he has produced to date. Harsh? Probably but its my opinion. I reckon if Zac looked in the mirror and was honest with himself, I think he would say he wouldn't be happy with his output.

[ElwoodBlues1]

Agree but he did have good preseason didn't he? IMO opinion, he hasn't been the same since the suspension just before round 1. He needs a chance to settle into the way we play for sure, but I haven't been impressed with what he has produced to date. Harsh? Probably but its my opinion. I reckon if Zac looked in the mirror and was honest with himself, I think he would say he wouldn't be happy with his output.

Williams has ongoing achillies issues, as Jim pointed out he spent a season out of the game, he wont hold up for 22 game playing a full on midfield role. You need specialists and you need a group that has some size like the Dogs and Melbourne have.
IMHO Williams would be a good rotation but is more your No 5-6 mid than your inner prime mover.