9/11 Debate

[Mav]

What about the lack of a plane full stop at the pentagon?
Or flight 93?
The guy they called to investigate that plane crash, went home after 20 minutes because there was no wreckage, no bodies, nothing to investigate. Pictures show what he was looking at.

No video proof of what flew into the pentagon has even been shown/released apart from 2 frames (1/15th of a second) that was retrieved from a servo across the road. How the hell does the pentagon have no video surveillance? Perhaps they do and it shows something different to the public story.

Questions questions questions....

From the 2020 Popular Mechanics article:

Flight 77 Debris
Claim: Conspiracy theorists insist there was no plane wreckage at the Pentagon. "In reality, a Boeing 757 was never found," claims pentagonstrike.co.uk, which asks the question, "What hit the Pentagon on 9/11?"

flight77
AP
FACT: Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"

This tactic of conspiracists where people's experiences are obliterated in order to push alternative facts is pretty sad. As Trump would say, don't believe your lyin' eyes.

[Mav]

By the way, what happened to the crew members and passengers on those 2 flights? Were they lined up and shot by the Govt and buried in a ditch somewhere? Or maybe they're in witness protection or imprisoned in Guantanamo Bay?

[kruddler]

From the 2020 Popular Mechanics article:This tactic of conspiracists where people's experiences are obliterated in order to push alternative facts is pretty sad. As Trump would say, don't believe your lyin' eyes.

Have a look at the photos of the hole in the pentagon. There is a blown up version down at ground zero in new york for you to view in detail if you wish.

With that in mind, have a look at the aerial shots taken before any cleanup was undertaken.

You tell me where the plane is.

Not PARTS of a plane...as there is maybe 5% of a plane....possibly people/uniform too.....but where is 95% of the plane.
Its not outside, so it must be in that hole....look at the hole. Tell me a plane fits in there. a 1:16 model, maybe....maybe....

Just look. If you are happy with what you see, tell me. Fine. If you look with an open mind, no chance in hell would you see a plane there.

All the government has to do is release 1 second of footage showing it....yet they do not. Why not? Why not put all this to bed??

NASA is sick of moon landing stuff so they released hours upon hours of footage of man walking around on the moon. That put to bed a lot of deniers. Those who refuse to look though, still hold true to their beliefs.

[kruddler]

By the way, what happened to the crew members and passengers on those 2 flights? Were they lined up and shot by the Govt and buried in a ditch somewhere? Or maybe they're in witness protection or imprisoned in Guantanamo Bay?

Dunno. Don't pretend to know.

Do you think its above the american government to kill innocent people to further their own greedy desires though?

[Mav]

Gee, I used to think that Alex Jones was just a complete plick for claiming that the parents of allegedly murdered schoolchildren were crisis actors whose kids were never killed at all. But maybe the Govt really was so manipulative that they concocted all those school shootings.

I wonder why he went soft, though, when he was sued for defamation. His defence that he was just an entertainer having a bit of a laugh at the expense of the parents seemed to amount to a surrender to a repressive Govt. Why didn't he maintain the rage?

[Gointocarlton]

It COULD have been, but what are the chances?

As i've said all along. In isolation, these things could happen.......it'd be like winning tattslotto.....every week.....for a year.....but they could happen.

But....is it likely?

You tell me what you think is more likely.
It blew out of a 110 story builiding that had fire hot enough to deform steel, into the wind and landed next so someone who thought enough of it to hand it into the police.....and didn't have any marks on it that would suggested it came from there.....and it happened to be the one guy who was flying the plane...and they were able to work that out....somehow.

Or....
It was planted there....or simply handed in by a plant to frame someone.

Firstly, I'd guess its difficult to quantify probability of such events so comparing them to tattslotto wins doesn't wash with me. I believe it was found in the street as described, just like many other items in many plane crashes. I remember watching an episode of Air Crash Investigations and in one plain crash which had many fatalities, one passenger walked out of the wreckage, collected his luggage on the ground and walked away. Seems unlikely but it happened.
They didn't need to frame him or anyone else, their names were on the passenger manifests were they not?
I just can't believe the theory that US Government Agencies would murder 3000 citizens to justify starting a war (or whatever other reason). I do however believe that a crew of radicalised lunatics funded by OBL learnt to fly planes, hijacked them and flew them into building to murder innocent people "in the name of Allah". Its that simple for me.

[PaulP]

.............................................I do however believe that a crew of radicalised lunatics funded by OBL learnt to fly planes, hijacked them and flew them into building to murder innocent people "in the name of Allah". Its that simple for me.

If you're interested, you should read the work Robert Pape and Lydia Wilson. Pape in particular, studied every suicide attack since 1980 (as at 2015). They are not really motivated by Allah, 72 virgins or anything similar. What spurs them into such action is that they've had enough of decades of foreign occupation, decades of war, instability, abuse, mistreatment, and lack of self determination, most of which is at the hands of the US. All of this should surprise precisely no one.

https://www.thenation.com/article/archiv...s-motives/

[kruddler]

Firstly, I'd guess its difficult to quantify probability of such events so comparing them to tattslotto wins doesn't wash with me. I believe it was found in the street as described, just like many other items in many plane crashes. I remember watching an episode of Air Crash Investigations and in one plain crash which had many fatalities, one passenger walked out of the wreckage, collected his luggage on the ground and walked away. Seems unlikely but it happened.
They didn't need to frame him or anyone else, their names were on the passenger manifests were they not?
I just can't believe the theory that US Government Agencies would murder 3000 citizens to justify starting a war (or whatever other reason). I do however believe that a crew of radicalised lunatics funded by OBL learnt to fly planes, hijacked them and flew them into building to murder innocent people "in the name of Allah". Its that simple for me.

....and you know what, that part might turn out to be true.

But there are too many questions about all of that, and all the other things as well.

As i said earlier, i expect the government to cover up parts and tell lies for parts.
It could be very embarrassing for them for a bunch of blokes they let in, taught how to fly in 20 hours and were able to unite and bring the greatest nation in the world to its knees. So they add a bit of mayo here and there and make it a more acceptable story.

But there are just too many parts of it that don't make sense for me to go along with the story.

[flyboy77]

Have a look at the photos of the hole in the pentagon. There is a blown up version down at ground zero in new york for you to view in detail if you wish.

With that in mind, have a look at the aerial shots taken before any cleanup was undertaken.

You tell me where the plane is.

Not PARTS of a plane...as there is maybe 5% of a plane....possibly people/uniform too.....but where is 95% of the plane.
Its not outside, so it must be in that hole....look at the hole. Tell me a plane fits in there. a 1:16 model, maybe....maybe....

Just look. If you are happy with what you see, tell me. Fine. If you look with an open mind, no chance in hell would you see a plane there.

All the government has to do is release 1 second of footage showing it....yet they do not. Why not? Why not put all this to bed??

NASA is sick of moon landing stuff so they released hours upon hours of footage of man walking around on the moon. That put to bed a lot of deniers. Those who refuse to look though, still hold true to their beliefs.

Re the moon, And the photos purportedly taken up there....

Some compelling - but basic - maths.

ps maybe the numbers are wrong, I don't know - haven't researched this aspect.

https://nomoregames.net/2010/04/13/an-in...o-and-911/

[flyboy77]

Firstly, I'd guess its difficult to quantify probability of such events so comparing them to tattslotto wins doesn't wash with me. I believe it was found in the street as described, just like many other items in many plane crashes. I remember watching an episode of Air Crash Investigations and in one plain crash which had many fatalities, one passenger walked out of the wreckage, collected his luggage on the ground and walked away. Seems unlikely but it happened.
They didn't need to frame him or anyone else, their names were on the passenger manifests were they not?
I just can't believe the theory that US Government Agencies would murder 3000 citizens to justify starting a war (or whatever other reason). I do however believe that a crew of radicalised lunatics funded by OBL learnt to fly planes, hijacked them and flew them into building to murder innocent people "in the name of Allah". Its that simple for me.

So your cognitive dissonance won't let you accept fundamental, irrefutable principles of physics....

That's all you're really saying.