CV and mad panic behaviour

[PaulP]

The decision to suspend the vaccines in those European countries is more political than scientific. That is my contention, and I believe it's also LP's contention.

Caution and risk/reward are not black and white. What may seem overly and unnecessarily cautious to some is seen by others as reasonable precaution.

[kruddler]

I've already stated caution and scepticism are a critical part of the process when based on valid scientific evidence. I've mentioned that multiple times.

So the root assumption of your post is wrong.

[member=20]kruddler[/member]  Why do you think the checking, double checking and triple checking haven't already been if not being done at the moment?

If my root assumption is wrong, you wouldn't be arguing against me.

Never said they are not being done. Just saying in the scheme of things, if we delay the rollout (for those who want too) then nobody gets hurt. The virus is basically dead in the country currently. We are afforded somewhat of a luxury in dealing with this in terms of time compared to other countries......lets use some of it.

[LP]

Never said they are not being done. Just saying in the scheme of things, if we delay the rollout (for those who want too) then nobody gets hurt. The virus is basically dead in the country currently. We are afforded somewhat of a luxury in dealing with this in terms of time compared to other countries......lets use some of it.

You can't pose the question and deny making the inference, it's inherent in the question. Whether that is specifically targeted at me to answer as part of this debate, or a rhetorical question posed for the benefit of other readers is irrelevant. Really, posing the checking, double checking and triple checking question just comes across as tricky and evasive, you imply it is not already happening as part of the act of making the statement, that takes us back to Sir Karl Popper.

The COVID-19 virus is dead in the country, except in sewerage facilities pretty much everywhere rural or urban!

[kruddler]

You can't pose the question...

What question are you referring too exactly?

[LP]

What question are you referring too exactly?

 See above, I'm on my phone so I usually post a bit before it gets too long to retype if I'm interrupted. 

[PaulP]

I'd be curious to know where the tipping point lies. Is there a magic number at which point suspending the AZ vaccine is justifiable ? If there was one death per country after taking the vaccine, would that justify suspension ? What about 3 blood clot incidents per country ? Would that justify suspension ? Unless the only level of risk you are prepared to tolerate is zero, there must be a tipping point that starts to spook people, and I'm wondering why the numbers currently in circulation would cause that, because statistically they seem very small.

[kruddler]

You can't pose the question and deny making the inference, it's inherent in the question. Whether that is specifically targeted at me to answer as part of this debate, or a rhetorical question posed for the benefit of other readers is irrelevant. Really, posing the checking, double checking and triple checking question just comes across as tricky and evasive, you imply it is not already happening as part of the act of making the statement, that takes us back to Sir Karl Popper.

The COVID-19 virus is dead in the country, except in sewerage facilities pretty much everywhere rural or urban!

I don't imply that it is not already happening, (again with the black and white) i imply that it is not yet finished....or if it then it was not done thoroughly enough to begin with.

Since other countries have started getting cold feet, which is what in the last week or 2....and those numbers are growing....you believe that we have canvassed each of those countries, got their reasons for doing so, done our own research off the back of that and come to the conclusion that everything is still fine and dandy?
You have much more faith in our government than i do.

[LP]

I'd be curious to know where the tipping point lies. Is there a magic number at which point suspending the AZ vaccine is justifiable ? If there was one death per country after taking the vaccine, would that justify suspension ? What about 3 blood clot incidents per country ? Would that justify suspension ? Unless the only level of risk you are prepared to tolerate is zero, there must be a tipping point that starts to spook people, and I'm wondering why the numbers currently in circulation would cause that, because statistically they seem very small.

I think the critical point [member=64]PaulP[/member]‍ is that the deaths have to be over and above the normal level for such incidents, and the scientists are telling us they aren't.

I note some of the countries that had paused have now announced the intention to resume overnight after the EU peaks body stated there was no valid reason to suspend. The dissenters can't defeat the stats with opinion, and if they continue to dissent the liability from the consequences of leaving people unvaccinated are huge!

[kruddler]

I'd be curious to know where the tipping point lies. Is there a magic number at which point suspending the AZ vaccine is justifiable ? If there was one death per country after taking the vaccine, would that justify suspension ? What about 3 blood clot incidents per country ? Would that justify suspension ? Unless the only level of risk you are prepared to tolerate is zero, there must be a tipping point that starts to spook people, and I'm wondering why the numbers currently in circulation would cause that, because statistically they seem very small.

Exactly.....so why is it happening?
Dig deeper and you will find one of 2 things.
1. Countries are jumping at shadows and those numbers are well within the acceptable ranges of these things.
2. There is another problem that is actually behind the suspensions.

My contention is there is no harm in doing our own research into what these other countries are seeing.

[LP]

Since other countries have started getting cold feet, which is what in the last week or 2....

Some countries are now announcing the intention to resume overnight, after the EU peak body told them the suspension was unfounded.

I can't believe that intention to resume has happened so quickly by the way.

That tells you the initial suspension process was dubious if not corrupt, right from the start!

We will know in two or three days, but that flip time frame isn't coming from a scientific investigation result, it's either bureaucratic or political.