CV and mad panic behaviour

[LP]

Blah blah blah blah blah.

The end.

LP give it a rest, you are welcome to your opinion, dont attack mine asserting a position of dominance.  its bullcrap.

I'm not attacking your opinion or asserting my dominance over anything, in fact I'm sure I do not know the answers and happy to state that.

I've just posed a simple question about the levels of evidence you accept to form that opinion, I've never even commented on the validity of your opinion but I have effectively stated any opinion without evidence is is potentially worthless. But you provided no evidence so I can comment about he opinion either way. If they can be bothered everyone reading this thread can see that, it's blatantly obvious and nothing to do with bullcrap like that Portuguese story.

You've taken this personally, because I asked a simple question that you either couldn't answer or choose not to answer.

If you stand by your opinions, as someone who works in health like yourself, go to your senior management, the directors of the health organisations you work for, and show them what you have offered in terms of social media commentary. There are two possible outcomes.

Finally, if you want an example of evidence, let's look at the math relating to the Portuguese journalistic disgrace, using Victoria as a model.

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There are roughly 6M people in Victoria, each month roughly 3500 people die, rounding to keep the sums easy that's roughly 120 per day, 5 per hour, one death every 12 minutes. If you vaccinate enough people, hundreds of thousands or millions, even just in Victoria it's almost impossible that there won't be a coincident death or illness somewhere somehow. Why? Because for example the Pfizer vaccination protocol is to sit monitored by health staff for 30 minutes after vaccination, vaccinate enough people and someone must die in the moments immediately after vaccination, regardless of the cause!  There have now been more than 10M vaccinations globally, that is the rough evidence hiding in the numbers and no opinion necessary!

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I gets even worse for some wanting associate correlated deaths if you start to correct for the fact the bulk of those vaccinations have happened in just a month or two! In extreme you could vaccinate the population of Victoria twice over and 7000 would die in that correlated period! And Victoria's death rate is pretty good by global standards, not that high at all in fact far from the worst, in some regions it is almost double!

[ElwoodBlues1]

Im the complete opposite EB, I have every faith in the vaccine and whilst rushed, its a different rushed. The collaboration and sharing of info around the globe by the best scientists on the planet has been like never before. I am told the the number of people used for clinical trials is many times more than the number for normal clinical trials and much more data has been available. Each to their own though, I would happily have the vaccine.

Fair enough GTC, its a personal choice and I understand your logic. I'm perhaps not as trusting as I was in this pandemic due to the
Herd Immunity aspect ie a few can be sacrificed for the benefit of the majority which is fine as long as you or your loved ones are not part of the few. Plus there is this battle/balance of health vs the economy, are the vaccines being rushed through to get the world back to normality and building healthier economies as the priority.
I think in Australia we can perhaps sit back and watch what happens first overseas as we have the virus under control providing we stop entry into the country. But each to their own as you say and I understand why people are keen to get vaccinated...

[LP]

But each to their own as you say and I understand why people are keen to get vaccinated...

Yes it's a freedom of choice.

Vaccination isn't about "me", it's about the people around me, some of which might be those who have no choice and cannot get vaccinated due to frailty or infancy. Like those frail elderly who died in Norway, they were trying to make the very susceptible safer and it didn't work. No different to very very young or premature infants not being suitable for vaccination against Hooping Cough!

I struggle with what I see as "recruitment" media, join us our opinion counts regardless of the evidence, it's properly bullcrap!

I bet not one of the dissenters, if they had a premature infant, would accept a critical care neonatal nurse refusing vaccination for Hooping Cough and still caring for their child! That is the hypocrisy of social media!

[Baggers]

Yes it's a freedom of choice.

Vaccination isn't about "me"...

I see it a little differently, Oh Spotted One. For me it's about You & Me... Us, Community, Team... when I get the Covid jab I'm doing it for Us.

However, I do share the suspicion of some. Although there has been unprecedented global co-operation, there is still huge truck loads of loot available to successful vaccines, and that can bring out the not-too-impressive traits of influential profiteers. But, on this occasion, I'm gonna back accountability and science... besides, a company that 'sharks it', once exposed would be bankrupt in a day.

I do, however, before having a jab, insist that science, manufacturers and governments assure me in writing that I won't suddenly become a cheats.com.au supporter following the jab. This is a not-negotiable. ?

(I have to laugh at conspiracies re the science of vaccines... especially when the conspiracy theorist is grossly overweight or puffing on a cigarette or alcohol lover... etc.)

[LP]

(I have to laugh at conspiracies re the science of vaccines... especially when the conspiracy theorist is grossly overweight or puffing on a cigarette or alcohol lover... etc.)

I'll give up smoking tomorrow, I can't give up now it goes down so well after a few tubes, and I'm off to buy a tattslotto ticket and that tatts agent is the local tobacconist, .................. but there is no way in hell I'm getting a jab the odds of getting a badun is too great! ;D

But I'm not gunna wear a seat belt, ................ Pfffffffff ........... seat belts are deaths traps! Do you know how many people die in car accidents wearing seats belts, way more than people who die in car accidents without seat belts on! :o

I'm not getting that COVID jab, .............. but can you book me in for some botox and a breast implant, I wanna be a Double D with a flawless deadpan smile!

FFS "Do not get the COVID jab", what do you think of my new tan, pale people shouldn't use solariums, the risk is too great they don't have my Mediterranean skin!

My new tattoos are saving me heaps of money that I would have previously spent on sunscreen, does the solarium fade tattoos? FFS, do no get the COVID jab, Jenny's friend Shelly works in the office at AstraZeneca's local warehouse, she got the jab and fainted right there on the spot, we haven't seen her for weeks, it's potentially deadly! I hope she's alright we are supposed to be getting liposuction together next month for a transfer of some butt fat to our lips!

>  I feel I've seen all this before somewhere!  :

[dodge]

Just a question:

My understanding is that one of the vaccines reduces the symptoms/effects in the person who has received it, but doesn't reduce the transmission towards other people.

Is this correct?  If so, how is it a panacea - it would require the masses to be vaccinated for it to have a lasting effect of reducing the virus? Is this how all vaccines work? If not, please pretend I didn't ask the question!

I have only had the flu shot a couple of times - I've never had the flu.  Partly my constitution, partly luck, partly others having had it?

I'm not sure where I sit on this one - certainly believe in vaccines (polio, measles etc seem to have done pretty well!), certainly not a conspiracy theorist, I trust reputable science, but I don't have the same sense of conviction about this.

[LP]

Just a question:

My understanding is that one of the vaccines reduces the symptoms/effects in the person who has received it, but doesn't reduce the transmission towards other people.

Is this correct?  If so, how is it a panacea - it would require the masses to be vaccinated for it to have a lasting effect of reducing the virus? Is this how all vaccines work? If not, please pretend I didn't ask the question!

I have only had the flu shot a couple of times - I've never had the flu.  Partly my constitution, partly luck, partly others having had it?

I'm not sure where I sit on this one - certainly believe in vaccines (polio, measles etc seem to have done pretty well!), certainly not a conspiracy theorist, I trust reputable science, but I don't have the same sense of conviction about this.

Good questions Dodge.

You are right, more people have to be vaccinated when a vaccine doesn't stop transmission, they can work by eliminating serious symptoms so in effect the worst thing you get is a cold. In effect it's stops people needing hospitalisation and massively reduces the total cost of care, and we could go back to normal pre-COVID lifestyles. Not all vaccines work that way, some stop infection, across the board it's about 50/50.

Yes, your flu experience is partly because of vaccination and partly good luck, if you are vaccinated the type of vaccine might mean as discussed above, that you caught the Influenza virus but had no symptoms. For reference, I believe the Influenza vaccine can actually be a mix of vaccinations in one shot against several Influenza strains that can work either way. There is talk that in the future they may even be able to combine Influenza and COVID-19 into a single shot. Ultimately this feeds back into the what Baggers stated as getting the vaccine "For you and me!" In reality very few people get the flu, it can be very bad for those that do get it, it's infection rate is much much lower than COVID-19, globally it looks like COVID-19 is about 3x more infectious that recent strains of Influenza, I say recent because the rate of Influenza infection varies year to year and strains mutate. The numbers are of course averages.

There is a lot more doubt being propagated in social media about the COVID-19 vaccines, but the vast number of people already vaccinated and the very very low side-effect rates mean it's far more beneficial than leaving your fate to chance. Some might faint like the famous nurse video, but that is just coincidence or vasovagal syncope as in the case of the nurse, a fact that very nurse came out and publicly stated after the video surfaced, but that part of the story has been rejected by the social media narcissists, apparently she has gone from anti-vax hero to conspiratorial insider! btw., Syncope and an allergic response are the main reasons for the waiting period after a vaccine shot.

Depending on the area and country where someone lives, a vaccination might cost about 1/1000th the cost of an average hospitalisation. If we took Donald Trump's treatment as the baseline, then vaccines cost 1/12000th the cost of treatment, which is why his claim that he would make that therapy available to all Americans was fully bogus.

[Baggers]

I'll give up smoking tomorrow, I can't give up now it goes down so well after a few tubes, and I'm off to buy a tattslotto ticket and that tatts agent is the local tobacconist, .................. but there is no way in hell I'm getting a jab the odds of getting a badun is too great! ;D

But I'm not gunna wear a seat belt, ................ Pfffffffff ........... seat belts are deaths traps! Do you know how many people die in car accidents wearing seats belts, way more than people who die in car accidents without seat belts on! :o

I'm not getting that COVID jab, .............. but can you book me in for some botox and a breast implant, I wanna be a Double D with a flawless deadpan smile!

FFS "Do not get the COVID jab", what do you think of my new tan, pale people shouldn't use solariums, the risk is too great they don't have my Mediterranean skin!

My new tattoos are saving me heaps of money that I would have previously spent on sunscreen, does the solarium fade tattoos? FFS, do no get the COVID jab, Jenny's friend Shelly works in the office at AstraZeneca's local warehouse, she got the jab and fainted right there on the spot, we haven't seen her for weeks, it's potentially deadly! I hope she's alright we are supposed to be getting liposuction together next month for a transfer of some butt fat to our lips!

>  I feel I've seen all this before somewhere!  :

)  )  well you took that observation and really ran with it, Spotted One. Don't think you missed anyone!!  )  )

[Gointocarlton]

I see it a little differently, Oh Spotted One. For me it's about You & Me... Us, Community, Team... when I get the Covid jab I'm doing it for Us.

Spot on Baggers Ol Boy

[Lods]

Thankfully, for an aggressively infectious, highly transmissible mutation this 'quarantine absconding' UK virus doesn't seem to be performing to its dreaded expectations.

It probably needs a few more days in Victoria, but so far, in the places it's escaped from, it doesn't seem to have impacted beyond the initial transmission.