CV and mad panic behaviour

[LP]

Yes, as much as we would like it this is not going away anytime soon. It'll be a rollercoaster of messages and emotions for some time to come.

To keep yourself sane never celebrate too soon, and certainly never throw the baby out with the bathwater at the first sign of trouble.

Do not let the naysayers get in your head, the Andrew Bolts and Alan Jones of this world who spend all day dragging you down with "coulda and shoulda", they offer no solutions and just rag on whatever is decided, and in reality there is little or no other effective choice than to act swiftly to constrain spread.

The Feds and States are learning, to stop hell from breaking loose they have to be hyper-vigilant and ultra-reactive, that means things must go from zero to hero in hours not days or weeks like before. You'll find there is less and less "From next week.... " type messaging, and far more "From tomorrow .................. "

[Thryleon]

Its interesting.  We start vaccinating very soon.

Whats the bet we take our time getting "on top" of this officially?

It all makes it look like they simply want to give everyone the jab which was a point raised VERY early on in this.

I still dont know whats worse.  Covid or the Jab.

For a disease thats highly infectious and deadly, I havent come across too many infected people, and cant tell you many that have died from it.  If I need a vaccine to guard against something i havent caught whilst walking in and out of a hospital where they were treating the thing the whole way through, then it makes me wonder why i am bothering (yes I do go everywhere, and yes I agree prevention is better than cure, and yes I think we could do more to prevent the community transmission and no I am not diminishing the covid threat, I am simply stating that I think the vaccine is likely to cause more issues for more people than the actual virus would).

[LP]

For a disease thats highly infectious and deadly, I havent come across too many infected people, and cant tell you many that have died from it.  If I need a vaccine to guard against something i havent caught whilst walking in and out of a hospital where they were treating the thing the whole way through, then it makes me wonder why i am bothering (yes I do go everywhere, and yes I agree prevention is better than cure, and yes I think we could do more to prevent the community transmission and no I am not diminishing the covid threat, I am simply stating that I think the vaccine is likely to cause more issues for more people than the actual virus would).

[member=105]Thryleon[/member], isn't your good health and limited exposure to infection a consequence of the restrictions and actions, that have prevented overflow in wards and loss of control over the epidemic?

Your experience is not reflected in those areas that have been indifferent to the virus, if you were walking out of a UK or USA hospital workplace, indifference leads to what has happened in the UK or USA! Also as bad as what is happening in those regions, that is only really considering the short term, the potential long term effects and costs are glaring!

I don't think the vaccines are any more of an issue than any other vaccine, so I do not understand where your concern comes from. There have already been millions and millions of people vaccinated world wide, and the numbers of those suffering illness confirmed as a reaction to the vaccine is very very small. The Norway deaths / events are not evidence of the vaccine being faulty, it's just proof that unwell frail people are more susceptible to complications from any form of treatment whether it is complicated or trivial.

[ElwoodBlues1]

Its interesting.  We start vaccinating very soon.

Whats the bet we take our time getting "on top" of this officially?

It all makes it look like they simply want to give everyone the jab which was a point raised VERY early on in this.

I still dont know whats worse.  Covid or the Jab.

For a disease thats highly infectious and deadly, I havent come across too many infected people, and cant tell you many that have died from it.  If I need a vaccine to guard against something i havent caught whilst walking in and out of a hospital where they were treating the thing the whole way through, then it makes me wonder why i am bothering (yes I do go everywhere, and yes I agree prevention is better than cure, and yes I think we could do more to prevent the community transmission and no I am not diminishing the covid threat, I am simply stating that I think the vaccine is likely to cause more issues for more people than the actual virus would).

Lot of convincing to do to get healthcare workers on mass to take the jab,I'm pro vaccine 99.99% of the time but there just hasnt been enough testing to satisfy all the different areas of concern across the community.
A lot of people I speak to and family who work in the healthcare industry dont want the first vaccine until all the bugs are tweaked out of it . While we have low levels of infection I'd rather the rest of the world be the guinea pigs while we sit back and take notes at least for this first wave of vaccines.

[Thryleon]

[member=105]Thryleon[/member], isn't your good health and limited exposure to infection a consequence of the restrictions and actions, that have prevented overflow in wards and loss of control over the epidemic?

Your experience is not reflected in those areas that have been indifferent to the virus, if you were walking out of a UK or USA hospital workplace, indifference leads to what has happened in the UK or USA! Also as bad as what is happening in those regions, that is only really considering the short term, the potential long term effects and costs are glaring!

I don't think the vaccines are any more of an issue than any other vaccine, so I do not understand where your concern comes from. There have already been millions and millions of people vaccinated world wide, and the numbers of those suffering illness confirmed as a reaction to the vaccine is very very small. The Norway deaths / events are not evidence of the vaccine being faulty, it's just proof that unwell frail people are more susceptible to complications from any form of treatment whether it is complicated or trivial.

Not really.

My lack of infection has more to do with good luck and my personal responsibility when faced with situations where I may be in the presence of those carrying the virus.

I.e.  I have gone into covid wards, and I make sure I don't take it out with me, and clean myself 3 times over both on the way in and out.

Why do I need a jab, if it hasnt infected me through my PPE (note: confirmed covid positive areas, not just a ward that is designated for covid and has a few suspected)?

NOTE:  I DO NOT TREAT PATIENTS, but I do look after the equipment the staff use to treat patients.

I have put myself at more risk putting equipment in place to prevent OTHERS from getting put at risk, and as a consequence have probably worn more risk than most people more often, and have yet to be covid positive.

Now all of that is neither here nor there with respect to the Pandemic.  I have agreed and disagreed with the lockdowns for the same reason I agree and disagree with the jab, but the jab is different from the lockdowns for one reason:  Its more likely to yield really harmful results than said virus to most people.  Why?  Because this virus, is not the evil that we first thought it was for most people.  Now that we know this, I am going to point to the Hippocratic oath, and bold one line:

  I swear by Apollo Healer, by Asclepius, by Hygieia, by Panacea, and by all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will carry out, according to my ability and judgment, this oath and this indenture.

    To hold my teacher in this art equal to my own parents; to make him partner in my livelihood; when he is in need of money to share mine with him; to consider his family as my own brothers, and to teach them this art, if they want to learn it, without fee or indenture; to impart precept, oral instruction, and all other instruction to my own sons, the sons of my teacher, and to indentured pupils who have taken the Healer’s oath, but to nobody else.

    I will use those dietary regimens which will benefit my patients according to my greatest ability and judgment, and I will do no harm or injustice to them.[7] Neither will I administer a poison to anybody when asked to do so, nor will I suggest such a course. Similarly I will not give to a woman a pessary to cause abortion. But I will keep pure and holy both my life and my art. I will not use the knife, not even, verily, on sufferers from stone, but I will give place to such as are craftsmen therein.

    Into whatsoever houses I enter, I will enter to help the sick, and I will abstain from all intentional wrong-doing and harm, especially from abusing the bodies of man or woman, bond or free. And whatsoever I shall see or hear in the course of my profession, as well as outside my profession in my intercourse with men, if it be what should not be published abroad, I will never divulge, holding such things to be holy secrets.

    Now if I carry out this oath, and break it not, may I gain for ever reputation among all men for my life and for my art; but if I break it and forswear myself, may the opposite befall me.[6] – Translation by W.H.S. Jones.

This vaccine, seems to be as much poison as it is preventative and cure and I am extremely worried not only about my own personal well being with this one, and the well being of those around me too.

Yes, I pity those people who get COVID, and I dont wish it upon anyone, and I want everyone safe and well, but if the means to protect people is more harmful than what you are protecting them from, then why are we doing it?

[madbluboy]

We put a tennis tournament ahead of the health of our citizens. We brought people who we knew were positive into our state. If anyone dies because of this then the the person responsible should go to prison.

[capcom]

Kristina Kenneally is the perennial whinger about bringing people home.  Can she just do the same?

[DJC]

Thanks to my job as a doctor in a small regional hospital in Tirol, yesterday I received the Pfizer COVID vaccine. And although you might think that I resent the residual muscle ache (just a normal post-vaccination tenderness, no other symptoms), I actually kind of love it. My fingers keep finding it and pressing it, like a kid with a bruise.

Because it reminds me of what it means.

It means that my body's cells are ingesting the genetic material (called mRNA) from the vaccine, decoding it and making the COVID spike proteins on their surfaces.

It means that my body's immune system is, as I type these very words, encountering those spike proteins for the first time, recognising them as foreign intruders, and mounting an attack on them.

It means my body is actively creating custom-made antibodies which will stick to the spike proteins and help disable and eliminate those infected cells.

And best of all, it means any future invasions of real virus particles won't stand a chance, because my body will remember those spike proteins from the vaccination and — like flicking a switch — simply pump out floods of the same antibodies it made last time, resulting in a coordinated and speedy attack.

Science is just so bloody cool.

It sure is!

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-04/v...FxyhfwewjA

[LP]

Now all of that is neither here nor there with respect to the Pandemic.  I have agreed and disagreed with the lockdowns for the same reason I agree and disagree with the jab, but the jab is different from the lockdowns for one reason:  Its more likely to yield really harmful results than said virus to most people.  Why?  Because this virus, is not the evil that we first thought it was for most people.

Can I ask about the bit in bold, how do you weigh that?

This vaccine, seems to be as much poison as it is preventative and cure and I am extremely worried not only about my own personal well being with this one, and the well being of those around me too.

I presume you come at this from an evidence base, can you share it?

If you were able to obtain evidence on demand, what evidence would you accept that the / a vaccine is safe?

[LP]

We put a tennis tournament ahead of the health of our citizens. We brought people who we knew were positive into our state. If anyone dies because of this then the the person responsible should go to prison.

I'm not too concerned about the tournament going ahead, I don't think it should be allowed to have crowds in the current circumstance. Managing a couple of hundred players for a couple of weeks is infinitely simpler than managing 30K people per day, perhaps 250K distinct people over the tournament length!

I'm quite concerned at the amount of push-back circulating in social media this time, it looks like too many think the vaccine is a silver bullet or that COVID isn't as bad in either the short term of the long term. Politicians like Craig Kelly and COVID denying anti-vaxers like Pete Evans have a lot to answer for!