CV and mad panic behaviour

[DJC]

Going to have trouble convincing health workers to have the first up vaccine, quite a few nurses and hospital staff baulking at being the initial test lab rats. Some surveys were sent out and a lot came back as a No Thanks but happy to receive later
I think the UK initial distribution and side effects etc will have a large bearing on the take up here in Aus.
Most Hospitals are expecting another wave in winter and staffing requirements are already being discussed and leave applicants told there are no guarantees of being granted leave.
Some scary reading here...https://au.yahoo.com/news/india-hundreds-infected-mysterious-deadly-illness-040435270.html..
We dont want any tourists for a long while, bad enough with those two Germans here in Aus being allowed to travel by a rookie police officer with 2 days experience on the job..

Interestingly, a 'lab rat' called in and spoke to Dr Swann about her experiences testing the vaccine.  She had a sore arm for a couple of days but no ill effects.

Swann was explaining how supplies of the vaccines will be limited and it will be a targeted immunisation program with health workers, aged care workers and the elderly as first cabs off the rank.  Pregnant women (or women hoping to become pregnant) and children won't get the vaccines until further testing demonstrates that they are safe for those groups.  All testing to date has been with adults and pregnant women are excluded.

It was interesting to hear how the vaccines use different pathways to counter the virus.  They are very different to the vaccines developed previously for other diseases.

By the way, the "Germans" are both Australian citizens. 

Imagine the outcry if it had happened at Melbourne Airport.  Nothing sticks to Teflon Gladys and Mr Potato Head  :

[PaulP]

https://theconversation.com/the-oxford-a...ont-151755

[Thryleon]

Adenovirus from chimps....

[LP]

Most vaccines come as some sort of animal byproduct, there is a great 40min episode of Radiolab that talks about the history of vaccines, and perhaps the most successful scientist ever to create them, and what are the costs of making them.

https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/rad...vaccinator

[flyboy77]

What is a vaccine?

Simple, non medical definition.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/diction...sh/vaccine

a substance containing a virus or bacterium in a form that is not harmful, given to a person or animal to prevent them from getting the disease that the virus or bacterium causes.

WHat little do we know about the Pfizer vaccine recently given to Will Shakespeare (someone's taking the piss)and another old dear in the UK?

1. It does not prevent someone from catching the virus
2. It does not prevent transmission of the virus
3. At best, it likely reduces the severity of symptoms (but then so do the HCQ and Ivermectin cocktails). Both cheap, safe and well understood.

So, in essence, it's fails the test. It ain't a vaccine.

Oh, and heard the stories about the 'vaccine' causing Bell's Palsy?

[madbluboy]

5 cases today. Third wave here we come!!!!

[LP]

5 cases today. Third wave here we come!!!!

They are all in quarantine as international arrivals, this is probably the new COVID normal so we better get use to it!

It's a a genuine test of how it's setup and managed.

[LP]

What is a vaccine?

Simple, non medical definition.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/diction...sh/vaccine

WHat little do we know about the Pfizer vaccine recently given to Will Shakespeare (someone's taking the piss)and another old dear in the UK?

1. It does not prevent someone from catching the virus
2. It does not prevent transmission of the virus
3. At best, it likely reduces the severity of symptoms (but then so do the HCQ and Ivermectin cocktails). Both cheap, safe and well understood.

So, in essence, it's fails the test. It ain't a vaccine.

Oh, and heard the stories about the 'vaccine' causing Bell's Palsy?

We need not take notice of moist of the social media rubbish, Joe Average will always find correlations instead of causation and that invented Down Syndrome and Palsy rubbish is laughable! It's simply the case that given a big enough study with enough participants there will be a correlation between any number of diseases the vaccine or drug being tested, of course the participants always claim it the drug or vaccine, even when they got the placebo!

No vaccine is 100% benign, if you feed a million people peanuts or eggs you could have as many if not more deaths or adverse reactions than you get from virtually any vaccine! Many vaccines are made from eggs!

No HCQ and Ivermectin do not reduce symptoms like a vaccine does, and both those given in the same aggressive doses as Trump recieved increase the likelihood of death from other complications, at the doses required to be even minimally effective they have to be administered under hospitalisation so the cost of the drug is just a trivial part of the treatment which is Trump's lie!

The cocktail of drugs Trump and Giuliani received cost about US$130K to administer and monitor in hospital per patient, so Trump and Giuliani's treatment regime if made available to just 10% of US citizen's like Trump claimed would cost the USA more than $4 Trillion dollars, that's high but about 4x what he offered when he offered to buy the USA exclusive rights for the Pfizer vaccine! When Trump made the offer, he low-balled the real costs of hospitalisation treatment for COVID, as much as he is a Clark Kent he is not a financial idiot, he or his associates probably holds shares in some of the drug companies as well! The vaccines in any form will cost about 1/100th that amount!

[Thryleon]

Remdesivir is the one that reduces the symptoms and length of hospital stay.

Flyboy77 has mixed his arguments up.

Aside from that you can keep this vaccine i dont want it.  I dont trust it.

[LP]

Remdesivir is the one that reduces the symptoms and length of hospital stay.

Flyboy77 has mixed his arguments up.

Aside from that you can keep this vaccine i dont want it.  I dont trust it.

Yep, ignoring the debate about HCQ and other treatments, it's all a fundamentally flawed debate in the shadow of prevention.

The vaccination decision that's your choice, it's everyone's choice, but then should there be some consequence of exercising that right to choose?

For example, if you work in a hospital/health system and refuse the vaccination, should you be allowed to continue work and mingle amongst those most vulnerable or those in contact with the vulnerable?

It looks like no vaccine no fly, the main reason appears to be airline liability and nothing to do with preventing transmission. What of the rights of the airline staff, the other passengers, the thousands of 3rd world dwellers you visit and brush past getting that cheap SE Asian holiday, kids who'll never be given or can afford a vaccination, hospitalisation or qualified care, but still deliver your poolside cocktail and buffet lunch? Bad luck for them?

What rights your elderly relatives, some may have cardiovascular or respiratory disease, still going to visit them at Christmas, do you still expect to roll up and have them provide you a feast at Easter while you potentially give them far more in return?

Interesting, this idea of freedom to choose, .................... choose what?

Vaccines are as much about if not more about protecting those around you, not just yourself!

We sit here under a banner of freedom, built on volunteers who chose to protect us when we couldn't protect ourselves, it seems to make the taking of an injection a relatively trivial sacrifice!