Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

[Baggers]

The best thing for Trump going forward i to move quickly through the transition period and inauguration..wait a few months and then resurface. He'll be like one of those little yappy dogs nipping at the heels. If Biden's a success his little yaps will just be noise.

I reckon the two biggest motivators for the Orange Man to remain in power were, 1) He has to win. Losing is tantamount to death, 2) Now he can't hide behind the Presidency so those lawsuits will roll in. Very real chance prison time awaits him.

But the upside for Donny is that he never did have to show those tax returns... nicely dodged. One day his supporters will realise just how much they were duped/manipulated/used.

[kruddler]

I reckon the two biggest motivators for the Orange Man to remain in power were, 1) He has to win. Losing is tantamount to death, 2) Now he can't hide behind the Presidency so those lawsuits will roll in. Very real chance prison time awaits him.

But the upside for Donny is that he never did have to show those tax returns... nicely dodged. One day his supporters will realise just how much they were duped/manipulated/used.

This was brought up recently by Ed Norton on twitter using a poker analogy.

Trump is in too deep. If he walks away, there are many lawsuits ready and waiting to get him.....and get him they will.
If he holds on and continues to bluff about his own lawsuits, he might bluff everyone and 'win'.
Reality is, everyone is calling his bluff and he has no other options but to continue bluffing.

The 'logic' behind bluffing and digging in is because he is trying to gain leverage to cover his own behind.
"OK, i'll give up all the lawsuits i've threatened......BUT....you have to give me immunity against all these impending lawsuits"

[Lods]

This was brought up recently by Ed Norton on twitter using a poker analogy.

Trump is in too deep. If he walks away, there are many lawsuits ready and waiting to get him.....and get him they will.
If he holds on and continues to bluff about his own lawsuits, he might bluff everyone and 'win'.
Reality is, everyone is calling his bluff and he has no other options but to continue bluffing.

The 'logic' behind bluffing and digging in is because he is trying to gain leverage to cover his own behind.
"OK, i'll give up all the lawsuits i've threatened......BUT....you have to give me immunity against all these impending lawsuits"

The pardoning thing is a bit dicey.
Can he pardon himself...seems a bit of a grey area...and opinion seems to favor a  'no'
Could he resign tomorrow and have President Pence pardon him?
Does a pardon apply  to legal actions across the board...criminal and civil?

[Baggers]

The pardoning thing is a bit dicey.
Can he pardon himself...seems a bit of a grey area...and opinion seems to favor a  'no'
Could he resign tomorrow and have President Pence pardon him?
Does a pardon apply  to legal actions across the board...criminal and civil?

I don't think there'd be much luck pardoning anything without a conviction. He'd have to confess, be convicted, then hope to be pardoned, all in less than two months! But if anyone would try, it'd be him. Personally, I reckon he'll continue to cry foul, maintain that he was robbed and is still the President whilst boarding a plane without an extradition agreement with the US... then Tweet his @rse off for the rest of his days... eventually dying in full and total denial with about 30 million loyal US supporters.

[DJC]

The POTUS believes that he can pardon himself but I'm not sure that he had much support from learned legal minds.

I believe that the US Justice Department took the view that the POTUS cannot be indicted or prosecuted back in Tricky Dicky's day.  I think the reason was that it wouldn't be a good look, as well as blurring the separation of powers.  I guess it would also mean that  the issue of a POTUS pardoning him/herself should not arise.

[Mav]

A conviction and sentence isn’t required for a pardon. Caspar Weinberger was pardoned by George H.W. Bush before he came to trial over his part in the Iran-Contra affair. Some think Bush did this to avoid evidence coming out in the trial which might implicate him. He acted on the advice of a certain William Barr.

There’d be nothing stopping Trump from resigning to allow Pence to become President after which Pence could pardon Trump. After all, Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon over Watergate (which is also an example of a pre-emptive pardon before any charges had been laid). I doubt if Biden would be stupid enough to pardon Trump and his cronies. Such an olive branch to the Republicans would be unlikely to soften their total opposition strategy and he’d provoke a rebellion amongst progressive Democrats.

The more interesting question is how general the pardon could be. Could it be for any and all offences against Federal law committed at any time prior to the pardon? Or would the pardon have to specify the crimes that are pardoned? It would be hilarious if Trump had to put together pages of bullet point crimes.

A pardon has no effect on civil cases. It does nothing to cancel any debts and it can’t stop E Jean Carroll’s defamation claim over Trump calling her a liar when she claimed in her autobiography that he raped her (penis into vagina).

A pardon also has no effect on criminal proceedings under State law. NY State is investigating Ivanka and the Trump Organisation over a dubious deduction claimed regarding a $750,000 payment to her for consultancy fees when she was an employee. This might be state tax evasion, falsifying business records etc.. No doubt realising that a pardon couldn’t save Daddy and/or her from prosecution, she complained bitterly over being harassed, poor thing ...

[Mav]

The DOJ policy against prosecuting a sitting President doesn’t apply once his/her term is over. Once the new President is inaugurated, charges can be laid unless the time for laying them has run out.

[Mav]

Here’s the operative part of Ford’s pardon of Nixon:

Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9,1974.

So, it would be possible for Pence to pardon all federal crimes Trump, his family, and his cronies have committed over their lifetimes. Ain’t politics grand ...

[LP]

Here’s the operative part of Ford’s pardon of Nixon:
So, it would be possible for Pence to pardon all federal crimes Trump, his family, and his cronies have committed over their lifetimes. Ain’t politics grand ...

But it won't help against a stack of civil lawsuits.

I doubt Trump cares about the political stuff, politicians are making that bed and they know in the future they might have to lay in it. But the financial sector and creditors do not give a rats-arse whether Trump is Ex-Potus or Ex-Communicado! That whole industry is built on the tradition of stepping over your dead mother for a dollar!

[Baggers]

A conviction and sentence isn’t required for a pardon...

There’d be nothing stopping Trump from resigning to allow Pence to become President after which Pence could pardon Trump...

Rather than the word 'conviction' to make a 'pardon' valid, perhaps if I said... 'did something wrong!' For a pardon to be issued there would have to be something to pardon! And even though that 'something' might not necessarily be specifically identified (which is crazy), there is still the reality that a perceived 'wrongdoing or doings' is or are being pardoned... and therein lies the issue for Donny, admitting he did something wrong or more to the point, having the world perceive him as having done something(s) wrong (failure - loser). Ego v accountability/reality.

What a war that would create within Donny's orange and yellow head. "I'm the greatest POTUS ever and really quite perfect (illusion) vs I've done something(s) wrong needing a pardon which is failure/loser (reality)." Or, continuing the charade of being Mr Perfect/Right but going to jail vs accepting a pardon to stay out of jail. Just one dilemma, on more of a psychological level, that the poor bugger would be negotiating. I find Mary Trumps insights in her book and on YouTube into her uncle and what makes him 'tick' very illuminating and helpful in understanding the mind of a text book narcissist.

Perhaps if Donny accepted a pardon but stated publicly that he's only doing it to keep others happy ('for others' = big man), to protect others (family / friends = more big man) and give him the opportunity to run again to save the people of America from the evils of anyone else at the helm but him (again, big man)... then he can continue to come out as Mr Wonderful as well as Mr Perfect and Mr Right all rolled in together (winner) - in his own head. There's around 45 million Americans who'll buy it straight away and keep sending him loot and attending rallies of adoration. (A recent survey said that around 65% of Republicans buy his crap).