CV and mad panic behaviour

[flyboy77]

A calculated risk that given the circumstances has to be taken IMO.

Good luck with that.

[DJC]

It's interesting to note that Prof Carl Heneghan is professor of evidence-based medicine but he never retracts or revises his articles when new and/or evolving evidence shows that he is wrong.  Of course, his articles aren't peer reviewed and he is paid to write stuff that hooks in readers.

An acquaintance of mine, in his early 50s and with no underlying health issues, contracted COVID-19 earlier this year in the UK.  He spent 90 days in hospital, 75 of those in a coma.  I doubt whether he will ever get back to normal.

I will be wearing a mask, social distancing, washing my hands and generally following the advice of Prof Sutton and his team.

[LP]

Some quality propaganda there LP. Gotta keep up the fear right....

Sure Donald, never give up the fight, we get it.

Off the bat, why is it called SARC COV-2? Because it shares so much in common with SARS COV-1 - it really is not 'novel' at all.

Nice twist of terms, complex and novel are not interchangeable.

There is no science to support the proposition the SARS COV2 has any more long term harmful effects than any other significant respiratory illness that overwhelms your immune system (if you let it). Zero.

That is pretty much a straight out lie claiming the opposite of the growing evidence, and as such not worth discussing.

There is also overwhelming evidence that there are several very cheap and highly effective treatments (if given early - pre hospitalisation - who would have thought to treat an illness early!) readily available but largely shunned by the powers that be - and the money machines that are Big Pharma.

Want to name some, with the evidence linking the scientific study that isn't a distorted retrospective meta-data analysis conducted by dodgy profiteers or will you just go back to Surgisphere,...again, sure not ........HCQ, even Donald din't buy that one when he fell ill, or maybe he was given all those complex and speculative treatments against his free will?

Masks? Again, zero evidence that there is one iota of benefit to an otherwise healthy person wearing a mask. Zero. And a lot of evidence that wearing said masks can be, and are, harmful.

But if you take a homepathic blend of GobSnobling you'll be completely impervious to the virus, as well as free to converse with Karens and Coreys everywhere!

It is self evident now (even if not back in March) that COVID19 is a very mild illness in the scale of pandemics over recent millenia. Indeed, in the scale of all things that kill us.

It's mortality rate continues to fall, suggesting the current mutation(s) are relatively benign (which again is the norm for these viruses).

The second wave data has exposed the exact opposite, and the death rate has settled into a fixed percentage of infections, science is closer to defining R[sub]0[/sub] at a stable rate that results from all the prophylactic measures including early intervention, masks, social distancing, not in difference to them! Yet in denialist regions like the US the infections rates go through the roof, 135000 in one day in one Mid-West state, after all the various break-outs to protest the election that must have been coincidence!

A good read here by a very well respected Brit - https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-...-19-biases

Ironic isn't it? Cherry-picking some of the "Types of Bias" and applying them selectively is actually one of the types of bias described, quite bizarre. One in all in! ;D

[LP]

I feel sorry for the denialists and conspiracy nutters now, COVID, Sweden, US hospitals with 96% full critical care beds, China and Russia deathly silent, climate change back on the agenda, life must be hell at the moment.

Donald's gone and Rupert has turned, they've lost the two primary global sources of all the good quality information in just a week.  :'(

How dare Rupert treat them that way, they've been loyal beacons of his global perspective. Who'd have thought Rupert would have dumped them and gone the way of profit over congruity, how could he have possibly identified that the vast majority is more profitable than the whining minority?

Uh-oh, maybe he's not being incongruous at all, could they have missed something, ............... what a bastard! :

Donald told them he'd won ...... wtf!

Then Malcolm tears Kelly a new one on live television, and what's that Malcolm openly accuses Kelly and/or his cohorts of expressing contradictory beliefs to the Prime Minister in private, surely not! Kelly must engage Giuliani and sue, surely the conversations of the Prime Minister weren't taped! :o

FFS, don't choke on this news, there is nowhere left to get some decent health care, apparently the beds are full of fake patients put there by big Pharma, and borders are closed, now Mexico doesn't even want you it's building a wall!

[Gointocarlton]

Good luck with that.

I was referring to CSL making stock and potentially having to dump it if it failed to gain approval.

[Thryleon]

Some quality propaganda there LP. Gotta keep up the fear right....

Off the bat, why is it called SARC COV-2? Because it shares so much in common with SARS COV-1 - it really is not 'novel' at all.

There is no science to support the proposition the SARS COV2 has any more long term harmful effects than any other significant respiratory illness that overwhelms your immune system (if you let it). Zero.

There is also overwhelming evidence that there are several very cheap and highly effective treatments (if given early - pre hospitalisation - who would have thought to treat an illness early!) readily available but largely shunned by the powers that be - and the money machines that are Big Pharma.

Masks? Again, zero evidence that there is one iota of benefit to an otherwise healthy person wearing a mask. Zero. And a lot of evidence that wearing said masks can be, and are, harmful.

And heck, aren't we compelled to social distance any way?

It is self evident now (even if not back in March) that COVID19 is a very mild illness in the scale of pandemics over recent millenia. Indeed, in the scale of all things that kill us.

It's mortality rate continues to fall, suggesting the current mutation(s) are relatively benign (which again is the norm for these viruses).

The so called second waves in Europe and the US - nothing but casedemics. and that's there's something of a rise as Europe/US moves into winter just shows the seasonality of the bug.

A good read here by a very well respected Brit - https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-...-19-biases

That we have to 'test, test, test' to even be aware that there's an issue says it all really (note the absence of data on the false positive rate of the infamous Beijing PCR test here in Victoria nor the number of cycle thresholds, amplifications, they're running with any given test).

Pot calling the kettle black.

Honestly?

We have no real data to show anything conclusive.  Long term affects???  8 months ago we had no idea what was happening.    Long term isnt 8 months.

Australia as a collective has seen all of 30 000 cases.

For a country over 20 million people, that is NOTHING.

Its not a large enough sample size to prove anything, and the timeline hasnt gone on long enough to prove anything.

Remember back in June when everyone said, lets open up, and the Andrews government warned about doing too much too soon??

Well, they did too much too soon, and then we ended up with rising infections (with or without knowledge of what that means).

Then we locked down, and despite everyone stating lockdowns dont work, in this case, it appears it actually did.  We still dont know what that means moving forward, but prevention is better than cure, and no one can tell me that this is misinformation or propaganda.

[Mav]

Yep, there are surprises everywhere. Doctors assumed that only people who contracted a severe infection would be at risk of long haul issues. But now it looks as though the severity might be irrelevant - even mild cases can result in long haul symptoms. And then there’s the problem posed by zoonotic transfer to animals such as the mink. The fear is that the virus might mutate and then infect humans, producing a more virulent epidemic.

[flyboy77]

Sure Donald, never give up the fight, we get it.
Nice twist of terms, complex and novel are not interchangeable.
That is pretty much a straight out lie claiming the opposite of the growing evidence, and as such not worth discussing.
Want to name some, with the evidence linking the scientific study that isn't a distorted retrospective meta-data analysis conducted by dodgy profiteers or will you just go back to Surgisphere,...again, sure not ........HCQ, even Donald din't buy that one when he fell ill, or maybe he was given all those complex and speculative treatments against his free will?
But if you take a homepathic blend of GobSnobling you'll be completely impervious to the virus, as well as free to converse with Karens and Coreys everywhere!
The second wave data has exposed the exact opposite, and the death rate has settled into a fixed percentage of infections, science is closer to defining R[sub]0[/sub] at a stable rate that results from all the prophylactic measures including early intervention, masks, social distancing, not in difference to them! Yet in denialist regions like the US the infections rates go through the roof, 135000 in one day in one Mid-West state, after all the various break-outs to protest the election that must have been coincidence!
Ironic isn't it? Cherry-picking some of the "Types of Bias" and applying them selectively is actually one of the types of bias described, quite bizarre. One in all in! ;D

LP,  rather than just throw cheap shots my 7yo could parry, put up some data, empirical evidence (basic data or even a RCT study - take your pick) to support any of your positions.

You mentioned HCQ - granted it needs to be taken early (given it's an anti viral in effect) and with zinc et al. - c19study.com - have a read fella, you might just learn something.

But there's also ivermectin, budesonide etc.....but no, we must have a vaccine.

You avoid entirely the issues that drown the PCR test - what does it really test for or was it meant to be solely used as a means to amplify?

How many amplification cycles are too many - the French have suggested more than 24 might be sufficient to land yourself in the bad result space, yet the Burnet Institute's work on the Victorian test (from China and we're the only State to use it) reckons 38 cycles are more or less A ok. That's laughable.

By the by, a positive test result is NOT an infection nor an illness, without accompanying symptoms and diagnoses.

It really was a facile response.

And throwing in the word 'denier' or the like - you dill. Grow the f.. up.

[flyboy77]

Pot calling the kettle black.

Honestly?

We have no real data to show anything conclusive.  Long term affects???  8 months ago we had no idea what was happening.    Long term isnt 8 months.

Australia as a collective has seen all of 30 000 cases.

For a country over 20 million people, that is NOTHING.

Its not a large enough sample size to prove anything, and the timeline hasnt gone on long enough to prove anything.

Remember back in June when everyone said, lets open up, and the Andrews government warned about doing too much too soon??

Well, they did too much too soon, and then we ended up with rising infections (with or without knowledge of what that means).

Then we locked down, and despite everyone stating lockdowns dont work, in this case, it appears it actually did.  We still dont know what that means moving forward, but prevention is better than cure, and no one can tell me that this is misinformation or propaganda.

We have a whole bloody world to draw data and experience from.

Yes, we are lucky the virus never really got going here - thanks largely to the fact we're an island a long way from anywhere.

If you think lockdowns fixed 'Dan's little f... up' , you're kidding.

It was beaten well before any of the Stage 3 or 4 measures had any effect - yep, social distancing, quarantining the sick (only) basic hygiene and a dose of common sense are ample - as long as numpties like those who run Victoria aren't derelict in their duties.

as they were, often.

[flyboy77]

Pot calling the kettle black.

Honestly?

We have no real data to show anything conclusive.  Long term affects???  8 months ago we had no idea what was happening.    Long term isnt 8 months.

Australia as a collective has seen all of 30 000 cases.

For a country over 20 million people, that is NOTHING.

Its not a large enough sample size to prove anything, and the timeline hasnt gone on long enough to prove anything.

Remember back in June when everyone said, lets open up, and the Andrews government warned about doing too much too soon??

Well, they did too much too soon, and then we ended up with rising infections (with or without knowledge of what that means).

Then we locked down, and despite everyone stating lockdowns dont work, in this case, it appears it actually did.  We still dont know what that means moving forward, but prevention is better than cure, and no one can tell me that this is misinformation or propaganda.

OK Thry or LP (or anyone really),

Show me a nice little research paper that shows Koch's Postulates have been met with respect to SARS COV2 and COVID19.

My ENT buddies are still scrambling on that one....

Causation. Rather important.