Formula 1

[Thryleon]

Interesting to read Hamilton has equalled or is about to equal a bunch of Schumacher's records.

Hamilton is probably the best of the bunch at the moment, and he has maintained a long period of tenancy in the fastest car, which means he betters his team-mates regularly. Does that make Hamilton the driver equal of Schumacher, Senna or some other greats?

I do realise there was a lot of politics in the Schumacher era, but I don't think there is any less now, it's just delivered differently.

I'm not sure modern F1 is a true measure of driver, for me there is too much remote control influenced by engineers and technology, technology that allows cars to be reconfigured on the fly. I preferred the old days, when how a car left the grid was how the car performed, all configured and setup in advance.

I particularly dislike drivers begging over the radio mid-race for permission to dial up more power.

I think you'll find this one is about fuel consumption and strategy rather than anything else, but you are right based on everything else.

[kruddler]

re Hamilton breaking records....
Noone can doubt he is a great driver.

There are more races in a season now.
So if you have a good car, you can rack up more wins, podiums etc in any given year now than in schumachers era.

As a result, its not really apples and apples

[dodge]

Engine being turned up & down is also because they only have a certain number of engines they can use in a season without being penalised so don't want them to break early.

[kruddler]

Engine being turned up & down is also because they only have a certain number of engines they can use in a season without being penalised so don't want them to break early.

Correct.

Its no longer push push push.
Its all about 'manage, manage, manage'. Engine, tyres, fuel.....  :

[LP]

Correct.

Its no longer push push push.
Its all about 'manage, manage, manage'. Engine, tyres, fuel.....  :

But that is my point, drivers running cars at 100% for 5 seconds stride past cars being managed at 90%, ............ and get lauded for overtaking prowess!

Then the same driver is being managed at 90% can't get past a back marker and spends 5 minutes begging for permission to turn the power back up ...................... it almost feels like a fraud!

How can anyone make any worthwhile value judgement about driver skills when a 3rd party not even in the car has such variable influence across a race?

[cookie2]

I wonder what Fangio or Nuvolari would make of all of this, looking down?

[Gointocarlton]

I wonder what Fangio or Nuvolari would make of all of this, looking down?

Interesting reading an article  on Todt visiting Schuey last week. He said its hard to compare drivers from different eras to determine who is the best ever. Schuey is the most successful at present with 7 WC's until Ham passes him. But yes, Fangio, Nuvolari, Ascari, Moss, Hill, Surtees, Villenueve  et al will be looking down, with their balls of steel in a cupped hand, smirking at the nancy boys of today.

[LP]

I understand the sentiment, but the olden days argument is a bit like saying Airbags......Pffft!

It's a very hard question to answer, I think the safety and technological upgrades are good, but the contest should be strictly and rigorously limited to the drivers.

I suspect the only thing allowing F1 to persist, the thing stopping alternatives from rising, are the legal and contractual barriers that it wields with a big $stick.

It's interesting, that apparently there was a survey last season or the season before, polling F1 drivers, and they almost universally agreed that Carting is the pinnacle of motor sport as a raw measure of ability. In this I read between the lines, and infer that F1 is the reward you get for being among the best at Carting.

[Gointocarlton]

I understand the sentiment, but the olden days argument is a bit like saying Airbags......Pffft!

It's a very hard question to answer, I think the safety and technological upgrades are good, but the contest should be strictly and rigorously limited to the drivers.

I suspect the only thing allowing F1 to persist, the thing stopping alternatives from rising, are the legal and contractual barriers that it wields with a big $stick.

It's interesting, that apparently there was a survey last season or the season before, polling F1 drivers, and they almost universally agreed that Carting is the pinnacle of motor sport as a raw measure of ability. In this I read between the lines, and infer that F1 is the reward you get for being among the best at Carting.

Carting is pure, no driver aids, equal (or as close as fark is to swearing) equipment. Man to man combat on wheels, driver weight being the only real problem. Im ok with the safety items in F1 such as the HALO and stuff, Jules Bianchi would still be here if they were introduced a few years earlier. I would love F1 to have more parity and really see the drivers go toe to toe.

[cookie2]

Safety issues are one thing, no problems there. The car being part driven from a control center in the pits is quite something else afaic.