CV and mad panic behaviour

[Baggers]

[member=61]Baggers[/member]

Baggers I take the view that either we a fighting a serious and life-threatening pandemic or we are not. If we are, then the government's obligation is to take all necessary steps to enforce the measures they have deemed necessary. If they aren't prepared to do that then just stop their bleating and wear whatever the outcome and be judged on that. All else is just hot air imo. Let's see what stage 4 may bring?

And therein lies the quandry.

The govts have medicos telling them one thing (lockdowns etc) to save lives and prevent flooding ICUs and economists telling them the dire cost if they go down that road too far and/or for too long. And the balancing act is proving precarious. The only nation that seems to have gotten it 100% right (aided by a smaller population) has been the Kiwis and they opted for the hard lockdown over an extended period and virtually shutting their borders. Result? Virtually no C-19. And we now have states here following suit, especially the closing of boarders to prevent all those diseased Melbournians and Sydneysiders.

Getting pollies and businesses to go hard either way as you say in your first sentence is a very reasonable but a polarising view. Because, ultimately... committing to one approach or the other, totally (a la NZ and now many of our states) either stops C-19 in its tracks but results in a massive financial burden/loss, or results in higher fatalities but is better for business.

So far I've tried to see it from both sides and to reason why the govts are doing what they're doing and I believe their approach is understandable (Fed & State) with only one fatal flaw in their strategy - trusting the general public to adhere to instructions to limit/prevent the C-19 spread. Maybe it's time to go much harder with quarantine rules, much harder.

[LP]

Do we need a new thread
:o  :
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia...d=msedgdhp

 [img width=350]https://www.covermesongs.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Ben-500x501.jpg[/img]

[LP]

So far I've tried to see it from both sides and to reason why the govts are doing what they're doing and I believe their approach is understandable (Fed & State) with only one fatal flaw in their strategy - trusting the general public to adhere to instructions to limit/prevent the C-19 spread. Maybe it's time to go much harder with quarantine rules, much harder.

Might economies that decouple from GDP as a measure of economic health actually have a chance of profiting from this situation? The reason seems to be that an economy built on thrift and efficiency as a lever, rather than consumption, might see a performance improvement in the current circumstance.

But some think that ideology is anathema to capitalism, philosophically capitalism requires continuous growth. I'm not sure both can't exist if people are willing to change, the problem is a people problem built around different priorities for cost, value, efficiency and utility!

[ElwoodBlues1]

I tend to blame ScoMo more than Andrews, he pushed for a reopening due to the economic effects and Andrews was forced to comply after being the Jacinda Ardern of Australia and enforcing the tightest lockdown of all states.
Speaking of Ardern she nailed it with stage 4 from late March and NZ have had 17 days with no cases, its the only proven way with no vaccine and both Victoria and NSW need to adopt same for a couple of months at least.
We cant be opening, locking down, opening, locking down and repeating the cycle, we need to go hard now and the economy is going to have to get worse and yes we will pay for it later but thats the scenario IMO.

[capcom]

Maybe it's time to go much harder with quarantine rules, much harder.

NEVER reward bad behaviour Baggers.  Fines should be tripled and damn well enforced and NO exceptions.

[Baggers]

I tend to blame ScoMo more than Andrews, he pushed for a reopening due to the economic effects and Andrews was forced to comply after being the Jacinda Ardern of Australia and enforcing the tightest lockdown of all states.
Speaking of Ardern she nailed it with stage 4 from late March and NZ have had 17 days with no cases, its the only proven way with no vaccine and both Victoria and NSW need to adopt same for a couple of months at least.
We cant be opening, locking down, opening, locking down and repeating the cycle, we need to go hard now and the economy is going to have to get worse and yes we will pay for it later but thats the scenario IMO.

I strongly suspect you're right, EB1. I wonder if the far right of the LNP put a lot of pressure on ScoMo to back up, to soften his stance - the kind of stance that Andrews took first up. Might also explain why Andrews hasn't gone hard the 2nd time 'round... Federal pressure. Be interesting to see what happens if Sydney continues to record more growth in C-19 cases. If we were fair dinkum we'd go the Kiwi model and shut the place down and close the nation to incoming flights for at least a month.

Moderation/trusting the public with different stages of lockdown just doesn't seem to work so well.

[flyboy77]

I tend to blame ScoMo more than Andrews, he pushed for a reopening due to the economic effects and Andrews was forced to comply after being the Jacinda Ardern of Australia and enforcing the tightest lockdown of all states.
Speaking of Ardern she nailed it with stage 4 from late March and NZ have had 17 days with no cases, its the only proven way with no vaccine and both Victoria and NSW need to adopt same for a couple of months at least.
We cant be opening, locking down, opening, locking down and repeating the cycle, we need to go hard now and the economy is going to have to get worse and yes we will pay for it later but thats the scenario IMO.

Can't agree EB. Dan had absolute discretion, his call.

He certainly is happy enough to ignore Scottie from Marketing on many other occasions?

Back to the hotel quarantine fiasco - and Dan's culpability.

There are some things a government (the authorities) can control, some things they can't.

For example, despite the road rules, the government can't stop a couple of young kids getting plastered then driving at crazy speeds, crashing and killing themselves and/or others.

But let's say there's a dam in regional Victoria which is showing signs that it might give way...and needs urgent repair/rectification.

The authorities are notified. They send a few crew out to have a look but essentially just dither around and do nothing.

The dam breaks suddenly a few weeks later after a heavy winter fall and hundreds are killed in a town downstream as a result of the 'flood' created by the destroyed dam wall.

Who has culpability?

The company that built the dam? Possibly.

The government? Definitely. Unquestionably.

And the bigger the f... up, the bigger the head or heads that should roll.

this f... up is as big as they get.

Enter Dopey Dan.

[Baggers]

Might economies that decouple from GDP as a measure of economic health actually have a chance of profiting from this situation? The reason seems to be that an economy built on thrift and efficiency as a lever, rather than consumption, might see a performance improvement in the current circumstance.

But some think that ideology is anathema to capitalism, philosophically capitalism requires continuous growth. I'm not sure both can't exist if people are willing to change, the problem is a people problem built around different priorities for cost, value, efficiency and utility!

Wow, you raise a terrific existential question or two there, Spotted One. Really got me thinking... could this be the global change in how we live? Have we finally reached the point where this ball in the sky and its peoples can no longer support exponential growth? Time to re-evaluate and change our monetary system? Time to eliminate extreme personal wealth? Wow... this requires its own thread mate... ripper topic.

[Baggers]

Can't agree EB. Dan had absolute discretion, his call.

How do you know this with such absolute certainty?

[LP]

NEVER reward bad behaviour Baggers.  Fines should be tripled and damn well enforced and NO exceptions.

You have to have a police force willing to do it.

Modern policing is all about community policing. This isn't a shot first state like the USA and that will never be the case no matter how many BLM protests get held locally to garnish international support!