CV and mad panic behaviour

[Lods]

Leave the right and wrongs of the situation out of it.

I still don't understand how by moving across town to a non-hotspot makes it Ok to travel.
Your home address will still show up as a hotspot  when you try to enter another state.

[LP]

AFL/clubs booking hotels and air bnbs for them. Its because the knuckle heads in NSW, QLD and WA wont let them in to play footy (ie work)

Perhaps the mistake is thinking this has everything to do with COVID-19, and nothing much to do with politics or business!

[Baggers]

Dude, seriously. I know blacks are a minority, and please focus on the original discussion. The majority of hate crimes are perpetrated by whites. This is fact.

Agree.

If someone asked me for as many examples I could think of, of groups that have or do perpetrate hate crimes I would think, immediately, of the KKK, Nazis and white supremacists. Then I would think of fundamentalist ********** (insert any organised religion or fundamentalist political ideology).

Too often hatred from whites against folks of colour is based on, 'we're the rulers of this world and we will do anything to remind you of 'that/your place' in the world.

Personally, I also see hatred as a result of fear, ignorance, upbringing and poor or perverted education which only feeds our deeper unconscious 'shadow' as noted by the deepest of thinkers in our history - Jung, Nietszche, Kaufman, Perls and others. But that's a massive -- and very confronting conversation -- for another time. (In other words, racism, xenophobia, Metathesiophobia and so on are symptoms of something far deeper within us all... oooo, oooo.... cue spooky music).

[PaulP]

Agree.

If someone asked me for as many examples I could think of, of groups that have or do perpetrate hate crimes I would think, immediately, of the KKK, Nazis and white supremacists. Then I would think of fundamentalist ********** (insert any organised religion or fundamentalist political ideology).

Too often hatred from whites against folks of colour is based on, 'we're the rulers of this world and we will do anything to remind you of 'that/your place' in the world.

Personally, I also see hatred as a result of fear, ignorance, upbringing and poor or perverted education which only feeds our deeper unconscious 'shadow' as noted by the deepest of thinkers in our history - Jung, Nietszche, Kaufman, Perls and others. But that's a massive -- and very confronting conversation -- for another time. (In other words, racism, xenophobia, Metathesiophobia and so on are symptoms of something far deeper within us all... oooo, oooo.... cue spooky music).

The greatest evil exists within each of us. If you've read books like Ordinary Men, or listened to war correspondents like Chris Hedges, you will see time and time again that the line between victim and victimiser is razor thin, and most people can become the latter with very little prodding.

I don't believe that people of colour, indigenous people etc., are less racist than whites, and when I say that, I mean they have the potential to be just as bad. The real problem as I see it is power, and when one race has dominance, they will tend to subjugate minorities for their own benefit. As I've said elsewhere, racism is not just about calling someone a name - it can operate in extremely subtle ways. Power ties in with other aspects which are well beyond what can be discussed here.

None of that should in any way be used to deny historical fact. Far too many genocides, oppression etc. has been perpetrated by white Europeans against minorities and people of colour.

[Gointocarlton]

The greatest evil exists within each of us. If you've read books like Ordinary Men, or listened to war correspondents like Chris Hedges, you will see time and time again that the line between victim and victimiser is razor thin, and most people can become the latter with very little prodding.

I don't believe that people of colour, indigenous people etc., are less racist than whites, and when I say that, I mean they have the potential to be just as bad. The real problem as I see it is power, and when one race has dominance, they will tend to subjugate minorities for their own benefit. As I've said elsewhere, racism is not just about calling someone a name - it can operate in extremely subtle ways. Power ties in with other aspects which are well beyond what can be discussed here.

None of that should in any way be used to deny historical fact. Far too many genocides, oppression etc. has been perpetrated by white Europeans against minorities and people of colour.

Im scared to even say much on the topic these days as the opinions are all a one way street. However, from the Herald Sun today about Winmar suing Newman, Scott and Sheehan over comments they made on their podcast about his famous jumper lifting all those years ago. Quoted from HS:

An outraged Winmar told the Herald Sun the trio had painted him as a liar and that he was taking a stand.
“I know what I said. I am not a liar. These white fellas are tarnishing my legacy.”

Really? Just imagine the outrage if one the three called him a black fella. I'll probably be labelled a racist for bringing this up. As for tarnishing his reputation, Nicky does a fair job of it himself beating up taxi drivers for asking him to prepay a fare. Probably shouldnt bring that up either.

[PaulP]

Im scared to even say much on the topic these days as the opinions are all a one way street. However, from the Herald Sun today about Winmar suing Newman, Scott and Sheehan over comments they made on their podcast about his famous jumper lifting all those years ago. Quoted from HS:

An outraged Winmar told the Herald Sun the trio had painted him as a liar and that he was taking a stand.
“I know what I said. I am not a liar. These white fellas are tarnishing my legacy.”

Really? Just imagine the outrage if one the three called him a black fella. I'll probably be labelled a racist for bringing this up. As for tarnishing his reputation, Nicky does a fair job of it himself beating up taxi drivers for asking him to prepay a fare. Probably shouldnt bring that up either.

One problem is that such outlier examples of poor behaviour by indigenous folks / people of colour are used as a leveraging device to suggest that because they can also behave like ar$ewipes, then somehow we're not so bad. This not only denies historical fact, it also denies a web of factors (social, economic, historical) that taken together create a harsher reality for them than for whites. And the other big problem is that it makes it much harder for non whites to make any kind of real progress.

Sorry, but I really don't have any interest in whites crying foul over individual indiscretions, when there are centuries of entrenched, systemic racism and oppression by whites that need to be resolved first. 

[Thryleon]

Agree.

If someone asked me for as many examples I could think of, of groups that have or do perpetrate hate crimes I would think, immediately, of the KKK, Nazis and white supremacists. Then I would think of fundamentalist ********** (insert any organised religion or fundamentalist political ideology).

Too often hatred from whites against folks of colour is based on, 'we're the rulers of this world and we will do anything to remind you of 'that/your place' in the world.

Personally, I also see hatred as a result of fear, ignorance, upbringing and poor or perverted education which only feeds our deeper unconscious 'shadow' as noted by the deepest of thinkers in our history - Jung, Nietszche, Kaufman, Perls and others. But that's a massive -- and very confronting conversation -- for another time. (In other words, racism, xenophobia, Metathesiophobia and so on are symptoms of something far deeper within us all... oooo, oooo.... cue spooky music).

See we all have different life experiences.

If someone told me to provide examples of hate crimes, it's thugs of the same ethnic persuasion beating up on innocent kids and being in a gang.

[Baggers]

Sorry, but I really don't have any interest in whites crying foul over individual indiscretions, when there are centuries of entrenched, systemic racism and oppression by whites that need to be resolved first. 

Have to disagree with that comment, Pauly.

Injustice perpetrated upon anyone, yellow, brown, red, white, purple... doesn't matter, it's always equally unfair and wrong. To have no interest in whites complaining about an injustice because they're white and they've a history of mistreatment is not reason to treat their hurt with any less compassion than anyone else. Actually sounds like just another form of prejudice to do so. We cannot tar the entire white race with the same brush based on the sins of the past. Important to remember that many great and heroic white peoples have fought for and alongside folks of colour, as there have been many great and heroic folks of colour and who've fought with white folks against a tyranny of injustice.

Not a good idea to be angry with all whites because of groups and individual whites who've perpetrated appalling acts upon coloured/indigenous folks. All races have done both horrible and wonderful things. And all humans -- black, white, chartreuse -- have an issue with power, just look at our history. It's because there's so many of us whities that our misdeeds gain more attention. Plenty of minorities have perpetrated abominations upon each other and whitey.

Attempting to demonise all whites because of the horrors perpetrated by some today and many in years gone by (just another prejudice) serves no useful purpose other than to create more disharmony, blame, retribution and so on. Far better to learn from the mistakes of now and the past and work together to overcome these prejudices for the benefit of all... and in many respects, many of us are now doing just that as have some very impressive folks (of all colours) in our recent and deep past.

Yes, many white folks have misused power to a disgusting and inhuman extent... but for as many of these as you'll easily find many white folks doing the right thing fighting for and with indigenous folks and folks of colour. Abraham Lincoln and his best mate, Frederick Douglass (an African American cat) together drafted anti-slavery legislation and against a racist nation had the legislation passed.

And yes, today, still, work needs be done re racism (and how to handle power) - but progress is being made, just not quick enough. It's more about acknowledging the reality of human imperfection and dealing with it through deep and widespread education, not blaming and shaming.

[PaulP]

I wasn't demonising all whites, simply stating historical fact.

[LP]

Might as well go all the way back to the Vikings then.

This is silly really, even the Australian 1st Nations people debate. There are research papers(hotly denied) floating around now that are suggesting archaeological record shows that long before the people who we now call 1st Nations arrived, there was a civilisation of real 1st Nations based around a race closer to Homo Floresiensis. The original 1st Nations people were basically driven or breed to extinction by those who currently identify as 1st Nations. So I wonder if the people making the new apologist rules and reparations are prepared to be judge under the same terms of reference. What happens if science now finds the genuine 1st Nations people were a bunch of now extinct ancestors of Homo Floresiensis from East Java?

It's a bit like the Maori / Moriori debate in New Zealand. In turns out the Maori weren't the first settlers, but now they claim the land of the long white cloud having slaughtered the original Moriori pacifist farmers. And of course while denying that invasion model the Maori  get compensated for the evils of the more recent European settlers.

Both groups will tell you their culture records verbally or artistically trace back to a time proving occupation, they can tell you the type of plants, weather, rivers and lakes that existed tens of thousands of years back. but that same history seems to conveniently omit obliteration of the original residents. Were the original residents as insignificant to them as some mega-fauna and so not worthy of a record in history?

Pssst, "Be careful what you ask for, and don't mention the war!"