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05-17-2020, 12:37 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2020, 12:40 AM by PaulP.)
@ Baggers, Balme didn't just apparate at the Tigers out of thin air . Peggy O'Neal, Gale, and I'm sure others worked as a team to get good people to fill important positions, worked as a team to identify problems, didn't just panic like sh1t clubs do, and made good decisions as a result.
There are some dubious types who like to believe that corporate, capitalist America is the end of history. But many empires have come and gone - Greek, Roman, Ottoman, British empires (to name a few), all had their moment and then they die. America is next.
Chris Hedges believes (and I agree with him) that there is no way out through the election system. If folks want genuine change, we need to use the only bargaining chip we have, which is numbers. Non violent, worldwide, mass civil disobedience that disrupts and cripples the system is the only hope we have of effecting change, and even that may not work. Meaningful change won't come from the inside, you can be quite certain of that.
@ Tragic - nice post. I agree.
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The US media can't handle Trump because they assume at some stage they'll get a truthful answer and force him to fall on his sword, Trump knows truth doesn't matter and doesn't care about being called a liar.
"Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck ....... Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck"
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(05-17-2020, 12:37 AM)PaulP link Wrote:@ Baggers, Balme didn't just apparate at the Tigers out of thin air . Peggy O'Neal, Gale, and I'm sure others worked as a team to get good people to fill important positions, worked as a team to identify problems, didn't just panic like sh1t clubs do, and made good decisions as a result.
There are some dubious types who like to believe that corporate, capitalist America is the end of history. But many empires have come and gone - Greek, Roman, Ottoman, British empires (to name a few), all had their moment and then they die. America is next.
Chris Hedges believes (and I agree with him) that there is no way out through the election system. If folks want genuine change, we need to use the only bargaining chip we have, which is numbers. Non violent, worldwide, mass civil disobedience that disrupts and cripples the system is the only hope we have of effecting change, and even that may not work. Meaningful change won't come from the inside, you can be quite certain of that.
@ Tragic - nice post. I agree.
Your first paragraph - exactly right... Balme may well have put the finishing touches (100th monkey effect?) on what Peggy and Brendan were doing but it was leadership from one or three people who created change. It was the direction and influence of leadership that changed the direction of the Tiggers (ditto Pussycats). Effective leadership can change things, quickly. This is my central point. Effective, visionary and courageous leadership can change the direction of clubs, businesses and governments very quickly.
Just look through corporations and nations that have changed for the better and you'll find new leadership steering a new course and managing the, sometimes significant, changes. The history books are full of such examples. And the reverse is also true... look at the history books for the numerous examples of an individual who steered their club, company or nation to destruction.
As I mentioned earlier, it's not an either/or situation. We minimise poor and dangerous leadership from any individual at our peril - regardless of where it resides. Just look at the dreadful examples the Orangutan is providing to future leaders. The only favour the Orangutan has provided to the US is to show, clearly, the inherit flaws in their political system (that have existed for many years).
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17
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(05-17-2020, 04:16 AM)LP link Wrote:The US media can't handle Trump because they assume at some stage they'll get a truthful answer and force him to fall on his sword, Trump knows truth doesn't matter and doesn't care about being called a liar.
Absolutely. He knows that if you tell enough lies, frequently enough, that they'll heap too high for others to pin him down... in the short-term. We can only hope that in time he's caught up with and exposed.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17
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Our last visit to the US was late last year when my wife and I visited a number of midwest and southwest states. Without exception we found people to be kind and courteous, and without exception they believed the US to be the greatest country in the world.
The vast majority in the fifty to seventy five age group were rusted on Trump followers. Many listened every morning to Rush Limbaugh because "he is able to take complex matters and simplify them for us".
Few had been overseas and quite a number had not ventured outside their own state.
There was a superficial interest in Australia and Europe, possibly because of their lack of knowledge. Free to air tv usually concentrated on local and state matters with Fox providing right wing views almost entirely related to the US.
We were left speechless at the end of a Diana Ross concert in Las Vegas when the middle aged couple sitting behind us queried our accent. When we said we were from Australia the wife said she had never heard of it.
Years ago I was told that the US is a first world country with a third world underbelly. I've seen nothing to change that view
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(05-17-2020, 08:11 AM)Baggers link Wrote:Your first paragraph - exactly right... Balme may well have put the finishing touches (100th monkey effect?) on what Peggy and Brendan were doing but it was leadership from one or three people who created change. It was the direction and influence of leadership that changed the direction of the Tiggers (ditto Pussycats). Effective leadership can change things, quickly. This is my central point. Effective, visionary and courageous leadership can change the direction of clubs, businesses and governments very quickly.
Just look through corporations and nations that have changed for the better and you'll find new leadership steering a new course and managing the, sometimes significant, changes. The history books are full of such examples. And the reverse is also true... look at the history books for the numerous examples of an individual who steered their club, company or nation to destruction.
As I mentioned earlier, it's not an either/or situation. We minimise poor and dangerous leadership from any individual at our peril - regardless of where it resides. Just look at the dreadful examples the Orangutan is providing to future leaders. The only favour the Orangutan has provided to the US is to show, clearly, the inherit flaws in their political system (that have existed for many years).
Mr Shano, all that may well be true, but I would argue that Trump, Reagan, Obama, Biden etc. are not there to lead. They are there to deliver the lines others have prepared for them, act out the role of leader, and distract the population with everything from debased, low level trash talk (Trump), to feel good, social platitudes (most Democrats) and everything in between. You can only lead if you have power to lead, and in my opinion, these types don't have that, which is exactly the way the corporate elites have arranged it.
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(05-17-2020, 09:44 AM)PaulP link Wrote:Mr Shano, all that may well be true, but I would argue that Trump, Reagan, Obama, Biden etc. are not there to lead. They are there to deliver the lines others have prepared for them, act out the role of leader, and distract the population with everything from debased, low level trash talk (Trump), to feel good, social platitudes (most Democrats) and everything in between. You can only lead if you have power to lead, and in my opinion, these types don't have that, which is exactly the way the corporate elites have arranged it.
From my readings and research Paul I would sincerely agree with you. The "elected" president is strictly retail - a salesperson there to sell the elite message to the masses and to perpetuate their sort of Truman Show world of make believe. The real power is with the elites and their enforcer networks such as the deep state and NGO/thinktanks etc.
Reality always wins in the end.
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[quote author=PaulP link=msg=303034 date=1589708657]
Mr Shano, all that may well be true, but I would argue that Trump, Reagan, Obama, Biden etc. are not there to lead. They are there to deliver the lines others have prepared for them, act out the role of leader, and distract the population with everything from debased, low level trash talk (Trump), to feel good, social platitudes (most Democrats) and everything in between. You can only lead if you have power to lead, and in my opinion, these types don't have that, which is exactly the way the corporate elites have arranged it.
[/quote)
Believe me, Pauly, I totally get where you're coming from - plenty of 'puppet' leaders in the world - agree. But that doesn't mean all leaders are 'controlled' by others and leadership per say. This is what I mean by it not being either/or but rather, 'and.' There is both influential leadership from individuals in the world and there is 'controlled by others' individual leaders in the world. To me Trump is a danger for many reasons, none the least for the dreadful example he gives our young. He'd give narcissists the world over inspiration and hope.
I, like many, am under no illusions re the mess the US is in. I believe if you put it in % terms easily half the people of the US are poorly educated, indoctrinated and just plum ignorant. I also believe around 35% are socially aware and represent 'hope'... as slim as that may be.
I mentioned previously the incredible hospitality I was afforded whilst in the US in '93... I also encountered breathtaking ignorance. Incredibly a teacher I was talking with in Marylands, when hearing I was from Oz, asked about Germany and Hungry! I was asked if Kangaroos could fly, by an adult... and so it goes.
Where we differ, maybe, is that I see a glimmer of hope for the US in the short term. In the long term I also believe that unless something amazing happens the US will go the way of the Roman Empire etc - yes, it's already well on the way. If China gets its act together they will no doubt be the next world power (if they're not moving to that already)... many astute business leaders in China must be seeing the flaws in the CCP rule, and how much loot it is costing them and will continue to cost them.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17
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Mr Shano, we could keep boxing on till doomsday.
The CCP has done fantastically well for China. They went from being among the poorest countries in the world pre 1949 to being a powerhouse that as you say, is second behind the US and will overtake them pretty soon. Despite the communist fear spread by dimwits, China has always been "open for business" under the pinks. They are the textbook example of state capitalism. Clearly they've paid a price, but their economic growth would be the envy of every country on the planet. They have always encouraged foreign investment, and with a population that is highly educated, hard working, disciplined, obedient, and most of all cheap, the attraction for overseas companies is obvious. Unfortunately that new found wealth isn't being shared fairly (workers employed by Apple and many others are basically slave labour with lousy conditions), but that's another story.
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