Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 15: Carlton vs. Freo

[LP]

But let's face it, the game was mostly devoid of skill, and system or method seemed to disappear in large parts. This "hack it forward at all costs" idea, which seemed to increase as the game wore on, is not a platform for future success. We won't be troubling too many teams with that.

I don't agree with that, because I don't see skill just as a subset confined to ball use.

The physicality and pressure we brought yesterday, Levi shoving opponents around, Ed stripping the ball off the opposition, SoJ's 1%ers, the gut running, the clock running, they are all skills. Daisy seizing the moment to push forward to be in the goal square, that's a learned skill. SPS making himself a pest inside F50, that's a knowledge based skill! The Simmo and SoJ set shots, those little moments!

I've got to give credit to Teague or whoever took the pressure off the players to allow them to perform in this way! Those skills were developed over a long period, that's all the coaches including Bolton, but they couldn't execute them in the recent past!

Notice Dow, a very similar error to Charlie just a couple of weeks back, but you have to be in the right place doing the right things to get the footy, another week or two might see Dow with a bagful based on a learned skill that isn't counted by disposal efficiency!

We saw glimpses of the other skills as well, O'Brien in particular hit some nice targets, as did Plowman to my surprise despite a couple of clangers. Fisher and Setterfield were both very good by hand in traffic. sMurph did what sMurph can do! I realise the slowness of the Freo midfield worked in our favor.

[LP]

None of these type of moves was a hallmark of the Bolton era.

I think that's too simplistic, you're commenting on some players who are returning from injury and weren't available just a few weeks back, and may well be dropped when Cripps and McKay return!

[PaulP]

Clarkson has been punching things since 1987.  And no way are Hawthorn top 4 - they have almost no forward line.

Order vs Chaos boils down to a variety of factors, probably the most important one of which is experience - an element in which we are severely lacking and no coach can teach. Unfortunately, there is only one way to get experience, and that is to get experience.  In two years' time, we will have the advantage of a group of early 20s with 50-100 games under their belt and I think structure will be far more apparent then.  Clarkson 2013-15 and Malthouse 2010-11 had the advantage of very experienced teams, which almost by definition brings with it an atmosphere of control and structure.

Once Malthouse came to CFC, his style was found wanting (and several of our players started looking for the door).  And Clarkson is now finding out the same thing.  There is not a coach on the planet who is going to make our list look like a seasoned bunch of professionals overnight.  It will take time.

I didn't say the Hawks are top 4 - I said their best is easily top 4 material. I also said they have too many lapses and inconsistencies to actually be a top 4 team.

I don't exactly know why Malthouse failed at Carlton, but I seriously doubt it was because "his style was found wanting."

You can make an argument for different teaching methods. As you infer, Teague is starting off by freeing up the players, and then the style hopefully becomes more disciplined and structured as the players mature and gain experience. Or you can try to teach good habits from the start like Bolton did, which means short term pain but longer term benefits, since you don't have to teach twice or hope for an evolution that may never occur.

One reason why Ratten only won 1 final is because run and stun is not really suited to finals footy. I know he got very close and i know some bad luck was also involved. My concern is that Teague may be Ratten MKII. Given where we've been, folks may well take that, but it's not where we want to be, and it won't save Teague's bacon when the wheels start to wobble, assuming of course he gets appointed.

[ElwoodBlues1]

Hawks dont have a great list but Clarkson extracts everything he has from what is there, I dont see them bottoming out either, its not their style under Clarko and Wright.
They will continue to wheel and deal at the trade table and appeal to established players to come to the family club which has been their image.
IMO Clarkson will take the GWS job if offered but will continue at Hawthorn if that doesnt happen.

[IvanAwfulbigone]

Dear Marc

er, um, yeah - I know we’ve had our differences, and hope I wasn’t outta line when I called you a soft f&$@ who was also a selfish pr!ck and needed to retire immediately.
What I was trying to say was i’m actually one of your biggest fans. Have been from day one.
So ... we’re good, yeah? Me and you?
Ok, great. Call me.

Cheers

[laj]

There'd be about 5-6 sides saying "thankyou Carlton" last night. Adelaide not being one of them. Port, Essendon, North, Sydney, Dogs and even the Saints are all only one game out of the 8 now instead of 2 because of us.

[PaulP]

I don't agree with that, because I don't see skill just as a subset confined to ball use.

The physicality and pressure we brought yesterday, Levi shoving opponents around, Ed stripping the ball off the opposition, SoJ's 1%ers, the gut running, the clock running, they are all skills. Daisy seizing the moment to push forward to be in the goal square, that's a learned skill. SPS making himself a pest inside F50, that's a knowledge based skill! The Simmo and SoJ set shots, those little moments!

I've got to give credit to Teague or whoever took the pressure off the players to allow them to perform in this way! Those skills were developed over a long period, that's all the coaches including Bolton, but they couldn't execute them in the recent past!

Notice Dow, a very similar error to Charlie just a couple of weeks back, but you have to be in the right place doing the right things to get the footy, another week or two might see Dow with a bagful based on a learned skill that isn't counted by disposal efficiency!

We saw glimpses of the other skills as well, O'Brien in particular hit some nice targets, as did Plowman to my surprise despite a couple of clangers. Fisher and Setterfield were both very good by hand in traffic. sMurph did what sMurph can do! I realise the slowness of the Freo midfield worked in our favor.

I distinguish between effort/attitude/physicality on the one hand, and cleanliness of disposal, avoiding clangers etc on the other, and the latter is what I mean by skills.

[LP]

I distinguish between effort/attitude/physicality on the one hand, and cleanliness of disposal, avoiding clangers etc on the other, and the latter is what I mean by skills.

I understand, but I also see effort, attitude and physicality as things that can be learned.

For example, in years gone by Levi would have stood watching yesterday's play unfold around him!

Let's think of it this way, when it all comes together things are only going to get better!

[PaulP]

I understand, but I also see effort, attitude and physicality as things that can be learned.

For example, in years gone by Levi would have stood watching yesterday's play unfold around him!

Let's think of it this way, when it all comes together things are only going to get better!

Yes, I agree to a degree, but to give an extreme example, when I saw Mumford break Murphy's ribs, I didn't think "wow, great skills." We're arguing semantics, but I'm sure you get my drift.

[LP]

Yes, I agree to a degree, but to give an extreme example, when I saw Mumford break Murphy's ribs, I didn't think "wow, great skills." We're arguing semantics, but I'm sure you get my drift.

That's also valid to my point, Mumford acted, he joined in the fray, maybe he does so naturally.

But what's that famous line?

"Do Something!"