If Not BB, Who?

[Thryleon]

GWS would be the best analogy to our list. They had a smattering of older guys (equivalent to Murphy/Kreuzer/Simmo/Thomas) on the books but around them was a team of basically first round draft picks (if you count their 17y.o. concessions as first rounders).

Imagine GWS without the go-home factor. That is Carlton's current list.

I think our experienced heads aren't really good enough to be compared to the GWS leaders.  Think, Phil Davis, Shane Mumford, Callan Ward.


Where we are struggling is that we have a few key experienced players, that we cannot get on the park.  I.e.  Kreuzer and Docherty would have been the difference between winning and losing on Saturday, arguably they would have been the difference vs Port, and who knows how different the Richmond result could have been with them playing.

We are just putting all our eggs in the basket of broken players, and are having to wear losses until the wheel turns.

[LP]

GWS would be the best analogy to our list. They had a smattering of older guys (equivalent to Murphy/Kreuzer/Simmo/Thomas) on the books but around them was a team of basically first round draft picks (if you count their 17y.o. concessions as first rounders).

Imagine GWS without the go-home factor. That is Carlton's current list.

The way GWS was built was not the same as our scorched earth rebuild

GWS built a palace full of riches, some new and some stolen, and are fighting like hell to defend it from the thieves for long enough until they come good.

Carlton burned down it's remaining hovel and is frantically trying to build a new palace using a mixture of remnants and new materials. In some respects we can probably be accused of throwing the baby out with the bathwater!

[jeza]

The way GWS was built was not the same as our scorched earth rebuild

GWS built a palace full of riches, some new and some stolen, and are fighting like hell to defend it from the thieves for long enough until they come good.

Carlton burned down it's remaining hovel and is frantically trying to build a new palace using a mixture of remnants and new materials. In some respects we can probably be accused of throwing the baby out with the bathwater!

GWS had the highest number of former first round draft picks on their list ever - but they were all 18-20. Then a smattering of older hands in the 28+ bracket.

Carlton now has the most former first round draft picks on any list ever - excluding that GWS list.

There is no exact like for like but GWS was the most similar to where we're at now I reckon. Their problem has been keeping the list together with the go home factor and a ridiculous injury plague. If it weren't for that I think they'd have won a premiership - probably 2 - by now.

Add the best of Adams, Treloar, Shiel, Scully, Boyd, Bruce, Marchbank, etc. back into that team and they'd be absolutely dominant.

[ElwoodBlues1]

Hang about.  Most of our mids are under 50 gamers.

You are either a good kick or not when you are a kid and that doesnt change....Pendlebury was a good kick from day 1, Williamson is a good kick...age, games has nothing to do with it...
Dow was a average kick at TAC level and nothing has changed...on the run he is 50/50 to hit a target, Walsh kicking short is ok but his balldrop means when he kicks in a hurry he can mistime them.
Weitering is a good kick who lost his mojo but has regained it and his kicking is back ok again..
Chris Judd wasnt an accomplished user by foot either and got worse as he got older, thats all ok if you have enough good kicking players in the team to compensate...at the moment SPS is probably our most reliable kick from our midfield group. Setterfield is another who needs to improve his kicking....Murphy can be unreliable as can Simpson. Cripps also uneliable.....
Obrien is meant to be a good kick but doesnt get enough ball to impact.
Fisher is normally good but of late has been under more pressure...Newman looks a good kick but went at 50% vs the Swans...

You will not kick enough goals if the majority of your major ballwinners cant hit targets in the big moments of the game.....

[ElwoodBlues1]

GWS had the highest number of former first round draft picks on their list ever - but they were all 18-20. Then a smattering of older hands in the 28+ bracket.

Carlton now has the most former first round draft picks on any list ever - excluding that GWS list.

There is no exact like for like but GWS was the most similar to where we're at now I reckon. Their problem has been keeping the list together with the go home factor and a ridiculous injury plague. If it weren't for that I think they'd have won a premiership - probably 2 - by now.

Add the best of Adams, Treloar, Shiel, Scully, Boyd, Bruce, Marchbank, etc. back into that team and they'd be absolutely dominant.

GWS would have won a flag with Clarkson coaching.......Clarko would have toughened them up and given them a more killer instinct, they dont have enough mongrel in the team.
Mumford back makes them so much better.

[LP]

GWS had the highest number of former first round draft picks on their list ever - but they were all 18-20. Then a smattering of older hands in the 28+ bracket.

Carlton now has the most former first round draft picks on any list ever - excluding that GWS list.

There is no exact like for like but GWS was the most similar to where we're at now I reckon. Their problem has been keeping the list together with the go home factor and a ridiculous injury plague. If it weren't for that I think they'd have won a premiership - probably 2 - by now.

Add the best of Adams, Treloar, Shiel, Scully, Boyd, Bruce, Marchbank, etc. back into that team and they'd be absolutely dominant.

Are not some of our former 1st Rnd picks GWS discards, or in other words the GWS Palace building remnants?

[jeza]

GWS would have won a flag with Clarkson coaching.......Clarko would have toughened them up and given them a more killer instinct, they dont have enough mongrel in the team.
Mumford back makes them so much better.

Hard to argue with that.

Although a fit again Jeremy Cameron is a pretty handy addition this year.

[ElwoodBlues1]

Hard to argue with that.

Although a fit again Jeremy Cameron is a pretty handy addition this year.

Cameron is a gun player and probably works better without Patton IMO.....Finlayson who I know you were keen on, Himmelberg and Greene probably are
a better support crew who can work with Cameron as the main man.

[kruddler]

Krud.... I'll give it a rest when Comrade Bolton can stop delivering party line Pravda responses and actually answer the questions.....I did enjoy his unprompted rambling where he discussed an awkward silence sitting with the players who are driven to train well next Tuesday and Thursday...is he serious or just taking the piss?

Paul beat me to it, but...

[LP]

Is Clarkson responsible for the success of his subordinates, or are they responsible for Clarkson's success?