Hannah Mouncey

[LP]

Chris Judd sums it up best.

It's a no win situation, because the facts are uncomfortable for both sides of the debate.

I think it's bad luck for Hannah, but the kids who transition pre-adult in their early teens, and not after years of training as a potential male olympic athlete, aren't going to have the same problems.

I'm not going to get into the moral, legal or religious debate about allowing teens to transition before they are even mature. But I can see the case were they would be OK to play AFLW in difference to Hannah Mouncey.

[Professer E]

Yep,  common sense says that if you "transition" after packing on size and mass you clearly have a massive physical advantage that is beyond the scope of the game.

Hard luck on this Mouncey individual but I can understand the administration's stance.

[Thryleon]

Sorry Thry but that's exactly what transgender is.

The Oxford dictionary definition of hermaphrodite:

hermaphrodite
/həːˈmafrədʌɪt/
noun
noun: hermaphrodite; plural noun: hermaphrodites
1.
a person or animal having both male and female sex organs or other sexual characteristics, either abnormally or (in the case of some organisms) as the natural condition.
synonyms: androgyne; More
bisexual, gynandromorph
BOTANY
a plant having stamens and pistils in the same flower.
ARCHAIC
a person or thing combining opposite qualities or characteristics.
adjective
adjective: hermaphrodite
1.
of or denoting a person, animal, or plant having both male and female sex organs or other sexual characteristics.

I don't believe that Hannah has had surgery but that's not the point.  She is female in all respects apart from her genitalia and testosterone levels and it's not healthy to force folk like Hannah to repress their sense of personal identity and gender because it may not meet the binary gender models of the Abrahamic religions.

I wonder how this issue would play out if Native American culture had prevailed and up to five genders were universally recognised  :-\

This isn't about Abrahams religions and thats a realm where these discussions take on a life of their own.

Irrespective of that side note, I'm yet to see how rebutting centuries of knowledge with pseudo science is taking us.

FWIW I am questioning the studies resulting in transgender.  I am interested in intellectual debate regarding this phenomenon and not bigotry.  I believe that this is psychiatry and psychology failing people and society.  We are not mending broken thought processes about identity but encouraging what I would call unhealthy preoccupation with labels to take over.

We don't need more genders.  We need to break gender stereotypes and social norms to accept the grey areas as part of a spectrum of male and female.  Hermaphrodite are the only ones that revolve in male and female categories anyone else is wearing a persona.  That persona might be an identity crisis rather than anything else and it might be an unhealthy way to treat people of this nature.  Gender dysphoria is the key term here and one of the pillars it's built on usually shows that trans people are often attracted to their own sex (I.e. gay if not trans).  Hannah is a confessed lesbian meaning Hannah is attracted to women.

The mental health sphere is evolving constantly and IMHO not enough is being done to support these people and it's in the realm of entertaining the impossible IMHO.  that cannot be healthy.

[ElwoodBlues1]

Yep,  common sense says that if you "transition" after packing on size and mass you clearly have a massive physical advantage that is beyond the scope of the game.

Hard luck on this Mouncey individual but I can understand the administration's stance.

The physical advantage is too great and its almost a health and safety issue......you get some slightly built girl badly hurt by Heather M and it will be straight into the courts.
Are insurers going to payout?, have the AFL created a unsafe workplace?...etc etc....
Like I said before if Mitchell Johnson was in Heather M's position would you want him bowling at 150k to women ?.......common sense has to be applied...

[cookie2]

The physical advantage is too great and its almost a health and safety issue......you get some slightly built girl badly hurt by Heather M and it will be straight into the courts.
Are insurers going to payout?, have the AFL created a unsafe workplace?...etc etc....
Like I said before if Mitchell Johnson was in Heather M's position would you want him bowling at 150k to women ?.......common sense has to be applied...

If some sanity does not prevail here EB this issue has the potential to kill off or at least severely curtail growth in women's footy as the bigger more powerful players get into it. The AFL need to pay careful attention and soon imo, but good luck to them trying to formulate rules.

[kruddler]

These people are hermaphrodite.  They don't fit into the transgender construct.

Yes, but not my point.

If people can physically have both bits.
Is it not plausible that they could mentally be both as well? Or opposite.

[Baggers]

Yes, but not my point.

If people can physically have both bits.
Is it not plausible that they could mentally be both as well? Or opposite.

Or an indiscernible mix?

Maybe, as DJC mentioned, we're transitioning to a 5 gender interpretation/understanding (Native American).

[LP]

We've see another recent example of this folly that is transgender athletes competing in female sports.

Racheal McKinnon, a transgender cyclist, has risen from relative obscurity to not only dominate the competition but set a blistering new world record. Relative to her opponents she looks like Rene Kink on a bicycle!

It's just crazy, and completely unfair for every female born cyclist on the planet, athletes that have spent years of dedicated training to get to the point they have a remote shot at being the best, only to have it crushed!

This person should not be allowed to compete with females on even terms, it's completely untenable!

I know this post won't go down well with some who champion the minority, but I feel when they do so they disrespect those women who should rightly feel robbed!

[img width=350]https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/inspirewp/live/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2018/10/Mckinnon.jpg[/img]

There are many ways you can champion a cause without resorting to theft!

She said: "The science is there. The science is clear – it tells us that trans women have an advantage," she said.

"The world record has just been beaten today by somebody born male, who now identifies as female, and the gap between them and the next born female competitor was quite a lot.

"The world record was two tenths of a second. I know that doesn't sound like a lot but it is.

"The gap between them and the next female competitor was four tenths, which to put into perspective in a sprint event like this, that would be 15m of the track, when sprint events are usually won by centimetres.

[flyboy77]

Simply shouldn't be allowed....though I reckon the South African runner is a different issue again (tougher issue too).

[LP]

Simply shouldn't be allowed....though I reckon the South African runner is a different issue again (tougher issue too).

I agree 100% in this regard related to people like Caster Semenya, and in fairness well also find men with female physical traits that give them an advantage in certain physical activities. But that is a natural variation, not man made!