2018 Rd 20: Post Game Calm & Civilized Discussion: Carlton vs GWS

[northernblue]

I can’t be bothered watching it but am curious by what you mean he separated 21 players from 22-28?

Essentially means that 21 fit minus 14 injuries = cupboard bare

[northernblue]

Think we had a go at a few big fish like Kelly, Sheil and then last season tried to get mid sized fish Rockliff,Smith, Saad etc and tried for Caddy the previous years when we traded Touhy..so I think SOS might be bending the truth that we didnt try...the money got big and the real big fish said no..
When you are bottom you are not going to be a destination club unless you are paying big overs and recruiting does get hard.......the job is much harder for SOS than his GWS days and having a inexperienced coach doesn't help either..Sheedy I hate with a passion but he was a good salesman and players like Ward, Davis, Heath Shaw, Mumford were nice gets to help build a team, if we had those types we wouldnt be bottom.
Agree you cant sell misery because that wont sell memberships but I think the Carlton supporters are fairly switched on to where we are at and its crossroads in 2019....its what the media sell to the public as a reasonable goal for 2019.....I dont see what the club sell as being as being taken seriously anymore....green shoots, synergies, defined by pressure wont be acceptable in 2019.

I’m sure there are guys who don’t want to come and put in any hard yards, and you know what ? Good luck to them... but I’d be looking for the guys that are prepared to work and strive.
Who wants to run around with The two Paddy’s ? Who wants to deliver to Big H or Charlie for the next 10 years ?
Come and achieve greatness boys...

[cookie2]

I’m sure there are guys who don’t want to come and put in any hard yards, and you know what ? Good luck to them... but I’d be looking for the guys that are prepared to work and strive.
Who wants to run around with The two Paddy’s ? Who wants to deliver to Big H or Charlie for the next 10 years ?
Come and achieve greatness boys...

I think that's the line that the club needs to sell to prospective players alright. Let's hope our sales staff are up to it and we score some quality talent! As EB states, 2019 will be critical and we just have to get set up for it this year in the drafts and trades.

[Professer E]

The kids aren't letting the club down,  it's the middle tier of blokes who have been decidedly underwhelming.  Aside from Wright and Daisy (after three poor years mind you)  the club has received nothing from this demographic.

[ElwoodBlues1]

The kids aren't letting the club down,  it's the middle tier of blokes who have been decidedly underwhelming.  Aside from Wright and Daisy (after three poor years mind you)  the club has received nothing from this demographic.

Agree..when the rebuild started we failed to address the middle tier like Paul Roos suggested and we have been caught out and now have to make that the priority at trade/draft time.
Its set us back a couple of years and we are in the same boat as Stkilda who did the same thing.....the bunnies we brought in at the last minute like OShea, Mullett, Shaw etc are useless and
Lang/Kennedy wont cut it vs class like what GWS have on the field...
We need better quality mid tier players as well not rubbish castoffs who think we are a easy place to get a game.....
Looks like we are going to have plenty of competition too...http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-08-07/bombers-prepared-to-hit-trade-period-again

[shawny]

The kids aren't letting the club down,  it's the middle tier of blokes who have been decidedly underwhelming.  Aside from Wright and Daisy (after three poor years mind you)  the club has received nothing from this demographic.

Post 100% nailed it!

Our rebuild would look very different if we managed to get some decent output from the likes of mature pick ups such as Mullett, Garlett, Phillips, Shaw, O'shea, ASOS, Pickett and this years Kennedy, Lang and Lobbe....sadly doesn't end there add in ones that are no longer on list like Sumner, Palmer, Smedts, Gorridge. OMG this is sad.

I think the kids are on track but the trading of mature age players is awful and a big reason we are so heavily exposed until more games are into the kids.

Marchbank and Plowman are 2 ticks in the Bolten era with Kerridge a pass as well IMO.  Lang, Kennedy and Lobbe deserve another season before rating accurately but still haven't set the world on fire in what we have seen so far regardless of excuses.

Not a great average and something that this draft can afford another lot of mature cloggers. 
 

[Baggers]

Post 100% nailed it!

Our rebuild would look very different if we managed to get some decent output from the likes of mature pick ups such as Mullett, Garlett, Phillips, Shaw, O'shea, ASOS, Pickett and this years Kennedy, Lang and Lobbe....sadly doesn't end there add in ones that are no longer on list like Sumner, Palmer, Smedts, Gorridge. OMG this is sad.

I think the kids are on track but the trading of mature age players is awful and a big reason we are so heavily exposed until more games are into the kids.

Marchbank and Plowman are 2 ticks in the Bolten era with Kerridge a pass as well IMO.  Lang, Kennedy and Lobbe deserve another season before rating accurately but still haven't set the world on fire in what we have seen so far regardless of excuses.

Not a great average and something that this draft can afford another lot of mature cloggers. 

Absolutely correct. Abysmal effort from the club and a huge fail.

[crashlander]

Post 100% nailed it!

Our rebuild would look very different if we managed to get some decent output from the likes of mature pick ups such as Mullett, Garlett, Phillips, Shaw, O'shea, ASOS, Pickett and this years Kennedy, Lang and Lobbe....sadly doesn't end there add in ones that are no longer on list like Sumner, Palmer, Smedts, Gorridge. OMG this is sad.

I think the kids are on track but the trading of mature age players is awful and a big reason we are so heavily exposed until more games are into the kids.

Marchbank and Plowman are 2 ticks in the Bolten era with Kerridge a pass as well IMO.  Lang, Kennedy and Lobbe deserve another season before rating accurately but still haven't set the world on fire in what we have seen so far regardless of excuses.

Not a great average and something that this draft can afford another lot of mature cloggers. 

Indeed. It is not wrong to want some experienced players to build a team around, but many of these guys have not performed as we would hope.

Mullett:
Mullett hasn't been a success. Granted he was only selected because we needed an experienced player as a back-up, but he doesn't do what we need on the field.
This one is a definite fail.
Garlett:
Early in the season Garlett looked like being a big win. However, his recent form and effort has been substandard: the intensity has gone, the tackling pressure has gone, the run has gone and the shots on goal have gone. I won't right him off yet, and he cost us next to nothing, but he is going to have to show a lot more to be a long term senior player.
Looking like a fail.
Phillips:
Phillips was a speculative pick as much as anything. He needed to have a consistent time at senior level to see if we was going to be the answer. However, he has struggled to remain on the field. Injuries have really held him back.
At this point his future with us is looking questionable, but that is not the fault of poor recruiting.
Maybe not a fail, but not the success we were hoping for.
Shaw:
Shaw may get another year, but if he does, he will be taking a spot a kid with potential would preferentially occupy. Shaw has not been able to dominate at VFL level, although he has been solid. I am not sure exactly what the club saw in him.
Fail
O'Shea:
O'Shea has really disappointed me. He was so good in the VFL last year that it was a no-brainer to give him a senior chance. Even then, he was selected as a back-up for younger players. However, with our injuries we have needed O'Shea to stand up and he hasn't been able to. Nor has he been able to show anything like the form in the VFL, on the rare occasion that he has been available.
O'Shea does have some positives: he tries to do a job, he works at his game and he is persistent. He is a good role model on the training track. He is just not looking like he has what is required to be a significant contributor at senior level.
Alas, O'Shea has to be a fail.
Alex Silvagni:
Like Phillips, Silvagni was chosen as a bit of speculation to be a role model for our young defenders. In that area he has been a massive success. He has also been a huge success when he has managed to get onto the field. But injuries have simply ruined him. He can't get on the park.
Silvagni may well be offered an off field position, as he is highly respected.
I am glad we selected him, even thought I was sceptical at the start. Injuries have robbed us of exactly the player we have needed.
Pickett:
Pickett was another cheap, speculative pick and one that might work out yet. His best has been extremely promising. But he has not often produced his best, mostly due to injuries. Like a couple of others, I wouldn't discard Pickett yet, but he does need time in the VFL to work on his fitness and touch.
Not a total fail yet, but not looking the way we would have preferred.
Kennedy:
Kennedy is quite a young player. I would think of discarding him yet. However, he does not appear to be the solid bodied mid we need yet. He has been very slow and his kicking has been erratic.
Looks like a fail.
Lang:
Honestly, I don't know why the club were so keen on him. Yes, he has some pace and his kicking for goal is quite good, but he has shown no intensity so far. He appears to have no defensive side at all and does not contribute on the inside. I'm willing to give him some benefit because of his injuries, but I really want to see some intensity and desire.
Looking seriously like a fail.

Lobbe:

[cookie2]

The kids aren't letting the club down,  it's the middle tier of blokes who have been decidedly underwhelming.  Aside from Wright and Daisy (after three poor years mind you)  the club has received nothing from this demographic.

Got it in one Prof. This area will need some serious attention this year to better support the kids we already have and any more we bring in. List cloggers will not cut it!

[flyboy77]

Kennedy, Lang, Pickett - too early to call. Need to get a full pre season into them and see some durability, get a decent number of games into them.

Kennedy - born April 1997 (21yo) - 31 games
Lang -      born Nov 1995 (22yo) - 52 games
Pickett -  born Aug 1996 (almost 22) - 16 games
Garlett -  born May 1996 (22) -      28 games


Everyone says you need 50-75 games under your bely before (as an average) you start hitting your straps....

You'd think at minimum 2 of the 4 will be regular first 22 players?