2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

[laj]

@WAsurfer

I agree with everything you’ve said.  I have to bite my tongue whenever posters on here or anyone in the media says “the talent is there ...”.

Is it? I’ve heard it so much i’m starting to think there’s something wrong with my eyes or I know nothing about football despite having attended roughly 1,000 Carlton games over 50 years.

Not one of the u18s we have drafted the last 3 years has been a bust. There's alot of talent in that group and alot are playing. One looks a superstar in Charlie. Some better than others, but plenty of ability. We have the likes of a real superstar in Cripps, Simmo, Murphy, Kreuzer, Kennedy, who has really picked up since he got fit, Marchbank, Ed Curnow, Pickett, even Thomas, although his best is past him. We mightn't go through to the whole 22 but there's plenty there do do alot better than we are, which is nearly winless. Certainly not enough to play finals but enough there to be doing alot better.

So the question get asked, why do we get pumped miserably every week?

[WASurfer]

Thanks for the welcome folks. Just to qualify my original post, I wasn't trying to knock individual players as such...they can only put up what they've got and then clubs/recruiters decide their worth. My point was more about the development of the young blokes and how it just seems to have stalled and whether that's an indictment on the club or its systems or coaching methods? Jacob Weitering is the classic example. In his debut year I think we all marvelled at how composed he was....commentators were saying he looked like a bloke who'd played 100 games. Fast forward 2 years and he's a shadow of himself....looks bereft of confidence, some bad skill errors and decision making and most of the time he looks like a deer caught in the spotlights. Last weekend was probably the best game he's played this year. No doubt it would be hard to play in a backline under siege but if it's because of the lack of more experienced blokes around him then that goes back to some earlier recruiting too?

It's hard to know how long it's going to take. No Free Agents will be putting their hand up to go to a team that's parked on the bottom of the ladder. If we can get a priority pick around pick 4 then offload pick 1 to Adelaide so they can get the SA boy they want and demand quality in return...go for a Mitch McGovern or a Tom Lynch AND a first round pick...turn an early pick into another pick and a quality player. But the problem in getting the quality blokes is they won't want to go to a team that is conceivably 3-5 years away from playing finals.

I've loved the Blues for more than 35 years and will be a supporter forever....but I'm tired of getting No.1 draft picks and still not moving up the ladder.

[ElwoodBlues1]

Not one of the u18s we have drafted the last 3 years has been a bust. There's alot of talent in that group and alot are playing. One looks a superstar in Charlie. Some better than others, but plenty of ability. We have the likes of a real superstar in Cripps, Simmo, Murphy, Kreuzer, Kennedy, who has really picked up since he got fit, Marchbank, Ed Curnow, Pickett, even Thomas, although his best is past him. We mightn't go through to the whole 22 but there's plenty there do do alot better than we are, which is nearly winless. Certainly not enough to play finals but enough there to be doing alot better.

So the question get asked, why do we get pumped miserably every week?

I'm not sold on our U18 talent as being all that great at this stage...Charlie aside there is no proven match winning talent that I can see and its all hope and promise without much delivery at this stage....I wouldnt call anyone a real bust either as its too early to tell but there are a few who worry me  ...

re: Kennedy...better but no star...B-C grade battler who is slow and whose kicking is average at best.....
    Marchbank...talented but cant stay on the park and not true KP, we need another big key defender like May from GC to see the best of Marchbank IMO.
    Pickett...I like him as he has real flair but struggles to get on the park and doesnt ever get continuity to give you 4 quarters.....

[LP]

I'm not sold on our U18 talent as being all that great at this stage...Charlie aside there is no proven match winning talent that I can see and its all hope and promise without much delivery at this stage....I wouldnt call anyone a real bust either as its too early to tell but there are a few who worry me  ...

re: Kennedy...better but no star...B-C grade battler who is slow and whose kicking is average at best.....
    Marchbank...talented but cant stay on the park and not true KP, we need another big key defender like May from GC to see the best of Marchbank IMO.
    Pickett...I like him as he has real flair but struggles to get on the park and doesnt ever get continuity to give you 4 quarters.....

It looks like we are reluctant to try mature age recruits for KPP roles, in that regard we must be focused long term game because most of the kids in the KPP class will be nothing worth talking about for 3 or 4 years at least!

[laj]

I'm not sold on our U18 talent as being all that great at this stage...Charlie aside there is no proven match winning talent that I can see and its all hope and promise without much delivery at this stage....I wouldnt call anyone a real bust either as its too early to tell but there are a few who worry me  ...

re: Kennedy...better but no star...B-C grade battler who is slow and whose kicking is average at best.....
    Marchbank...talented but cant stay on the park and not true KP, we need another big key defender like May from GC to see the best of Marchbank IMO.
    Pickett...I like him as he has real flair but struggles to get on the park and doesnt ever get continuity to give you 4 quarters.....

There's no busts among them, at least this far. Plenty have shown they can play at AFL level, obviously some better than others.

What I was try to say though was those players are alot better than a onecein season. That was the point I was trying to make. I just asked why.

[Lods]

Curnow and Fisher I'm confident about.
Many of the others show some good signs and a few of them will no doubt be long term players....but we need to see a bit more before declaring them a success.
If you read back on many of the threads of some of our recruits of the last decade the signs were promising...but they're gone.

It all boils down to development of the talent...and that's a job for the coaches, whoever they may be, over the next couple of years.
It will be task made easier with a couple of 22-26 year old experienced, elite players to serve as examples.

Bolton's there for the next twelve months at least.
There may be noise about changes around him....but he won't be replaced in the short term.
That noise isn't strong enough.

[ElwoodBlues1]

Curnow and Fisher I'm confident about.
Many of the others show some good signs and a few of them will no doubt be long term players....but we need to see a bit more before declaring them a success.
If you read back on many of the threads of some of our recruits of the last decade the signs were promising...but they're gone.

It all boils down to development of the talent...and that's a job for the coaches, whoever they may be, over the next couple of years.
It will be task made easier with a couple of 22-26 year old experienced, elite players to serve as examples.

Bolton's there for the next twelve months at least.
There may be noise about changes around him....but he won't be replaced in the short term.
That noise isn't strong enough.

No obvious candidate for the job either, I'll give Bolton 12 months then MLG and SOS will sacrifice him to save themselves IMO.....the spectre of Ros Lyon might start shadowing
the club by then as well if Freo are not doing so well.Like an Italian cruise ship captain Ross doesnt mind abandoning the ship(see Stkilda) when the going gets tough and he might want a fresh start with some old friends like MLG and SOS to welcome him onboard a new club......unless he thinks we are too Titanic like and wants something a bit more cruisy....

[DJC]

Earlier this season I saw 34 year old Kade Simpson registering 95% plus time on ground percentages, and he hasnt exactly been marking space in back pocket all season.

Ditto Ed Curnow who is pretty much an everywhere man.

The kids were in the 60's (kennedy, DOw, SPS).  If you have 4 players playing less than 3/4 of football, you are effectively using one bench spot on them each quarter meaning everyone else is significantly impacted.

It wouldn’t surprise me if our younger blokes are playing more minutes/games than their peers at other clubs.

I think that we’ve rushed players back after injury - Kennedy for example - and have had to manage their workload/TOG.

The cupboard is pretty bare and it’s worse with Jones and Fisher out.

[laj]

Curnow and Fisher I'm confident about.
Many of the others show some good signs and a few of them will no doubt be long term players....but we need to see a bit more before declaring them a success.
If you read back on many of the threads of some of our recruits of the last decade the signs were promising...but they're gone.

It all boils down to development of the talent...and that's a job for the coaches, whoever they may be, over the next couple of years.
It will be task made easier with a couple of 22-26 year old experienced, elite players to serve as examples.

Bolton's there for the next twelve months at least.
There may be noise about changes around him....but he won't be replaced in the short term.
That noise isn't strong enough.

Historically though, under old regimes we'd have busts already. We don't have any of those yet, even the ones in the picks 50,60s, maybe even 70s range. We're getting good footy out of the likes of Curnow and Fisher obviously, Weitering looked so much better in a proper role, Mckay, although not in Curnow's class yet, looks like he belongs at this level. Dow and O'Brien have certainly been worth the picks and Williamson looks a good type. Like to see more from SPS especially, Cunningham and SOJ, but a couple of those will do better in their right roles, but they show the ability to get there. SOJ looks like he'll go ok in defence. Like to see the likes of Macreadie have a bit more luck.

Some will be very good, some solid, some even just good to foot soldiers but so far no busts, at least thus far, a novelty at Carlton. That will have to be useful to us somewhere, surely.  Polson maybe the one who's been least impressive but he has a good crack and played his best game last week.

Shows our mindset, not so much on how many become really good, but relieved there's no busts yet...lol.

[flyboy77]

And sounds like Shumacher (sp?) had a break uot game in the NB's match on the weekend....

Just need to add 2-3 seasoned mids to the group.