JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

[flyboy77]

The win had genuine merit. The Aints threw everything at us after half-time and I suspect they fully expected win/over run us. But we held our nerve, absorbed their surge and went on to win. Yes, we jumped them but we protected that 3-4 goal jump for the game.

Absa bloody lutely.

Sure we jumper them, but that was because we startred with a patch of darn good footy and they simply weren't good enough to stem the flow.

Heck, if Murphy had slotted that easy goal (one which he'd normally nail 9.9 out of 10) the lead could hve been even more substantial at quarter time (and someone elsed missed a gimme too).

THe win would have given the lads immense self belief (especially given the manner of the Saints smashing us in recent years).

Think we'll take care of the Dawks very comfortably.

[crashlander]

The idiots can talk us down as much as they like. If some other clubs believe the 'scribes', then we have a chance to rub their noses in it. After all, wins talk much better than honourable losses.

[tonyo]

The idiots can talk us down as much as they like. If some other clubs believe the 'scribes', then we have a chance to rub their noses in it. After all, wins talk much better than honourable losses.

Agreed - since when does anyone listen to the press?  They are only good at stating the bleeding obvious after everyone else has already noticed, and as for predictions, they will spend most of the year giving excuses as to why their prognostications were miles off the mark.

TBH, a season with limited expectations and the chance to try some more free-wheeling football may be just what this group needs at the moment.  And we have already seen in the last couple of seasons that if a bunch of young guys get on a roll, anything can happen.

[kruddler]

I don't think I need to debate that one, you've put it quite succinctly! ;D

I'm talking mentally as well. Which i thought was clear from the Gibbs comparison. Both are smarter than the blokes they played against underage. More disciplined. More level headed. More focussed.

Firstly, that'll be a couple of more times than Harry so far, but I'm not going to get drawn into a debate about who is the best forward because that is just you trying to justify your comments that there is no spot for Weitering, which is just a completely ludicrous statement!

Claiming Weitering is not as good of a contested mark, that's just a sign of desperation or deflection!

McKay outmarked Casboult a couple of times against the saints. He is very physical in the air. Is taller and more physical in contests. Weitering is a better reader of the ball. Both are good, but McKay is a better pack mark. Weitering might be a better 1 on 1, might.

We had first pick in the 2015 national draft, don't take offence Kruddler but I think I'll trust SOS and Bolts on this one they have a pretty reasonable track record going on as far as recruitment is concerned, and they took Weitering ahead of both Harry and Charlie. That's a hell of a tell!

...and i've already said i would've done the same. At the time we didn't have Jones, Marchbank or Plowman dominating.

Its a bit like when we took Kreuzer with #1 pick. At the time, we lacked a #1 ruckman. However, Sauce Jacobs, Hampson and even Warnock all came on to some extent which meant we had an embarrassment of riches in that area at the time. Obviously they all couldn't play. Obviously, we ended up letting Jacobs go because he wasn't getting a game.

As with Weitering, Jacobs leaving had nothing to do with talent. It had to do with where he was in the pecking order.
I have absolutely nothing against Weitering. I love him as much as the next bloke. I just feel that him playing, in certain situations, may work into the oppositions hands if there is no matchup for him.

Answer me this.
Who does he play on against Richmond?

[PaulP]

I can see the point kruddler is making. Apple Computer developed Mac OS X to the point where it could run on both PowerPC and Intel processors - Steve Jobs said (something like) "we now have options, and as anyone will tell you, it's good to have options."

Our back 6, or back 15 or whatever the number is, has enough personnel to give us some good flexibility, and good options, which on paper and in theory, may mean that at certain times, Weets won't be one of those defenders. But in reality, I think the club will play him, no matter what.

[LP]

Answer me this.
Who does he play on against Richmond?

Weitering should be doing for us what Taylor does for Geelong, Rance does for Nthmond or Gibson did for the Dawks. He should be our main 3rd man up intercept marking player, it's clearly his strength and we've failed to have a structure that allows him to play his game. They don't really play on anybody because their job is to get to as many marking contests as possible and make the extra numbers. I'm pegging he's a certainty if fit to be selected for that very reason, even if he hadn't lead the intercept marking before we tried to make him a forward.

I'm also expecting him to be one of the better ball users from the back half, he's got the skills he just needs the experience to make the majority of his decisions the correct one.

A lot of posters talk about him losing confidence, that is based on hesitations and poor apparent disposal, but a lot of that comes from the players around him and up the ground not doing what they should be doing. It's no different to that Daisy chip-and-run last weekend, which was a result of no KPF leading up the wing at the ball carrier. The problem wasn't Daisy, it was further up the field.

[PaulP]

Weitering should be doing for us what Taylor does for Geelong, Rance does for Nthmond or Gibson did for the Dawks. He should be our main 3rd man up intercept marking player, it's clearly his strength and we've failed to have a structure that allows him to play his game. They don't really play on anybody because their job is to get to as many marking contests as possible and make the extra numbers. I'm pegging he's a certainty if fit to be selected for that very reason, even if he hadn't lead the intercept marking before we tried to make him a forward.

I'm also expecting him to be one of the better ball users from the back half, he's got the skills he just needs the experience to make the majority of his decisions the correct one.

A lot of posters talk about him losing confidence, that is based on hesitations and poor apparent disposal, but a lot of that comes from the players around him and up the ground not doing what they should be doing. It's no different to that Daisy chip-and-run last weekend, which was a result of no KPF leading up the wing at the ball carrier. The problem wasn't Daisy, it was further up the field.

Rance and Gibson are more mobile, faster and more athletic than weets. Not sure about Taylor. The other issue is that Richmond or any other team are unlikely to leave weitering unmanned for long. The other side of the argument is that he has a very good footy brain and is a very good reader of the play, which mitigates to some extent the lack of leg speed. An interesting discussion for the selection committee IMO.

[ElwoodBlues1]

Weitering should be doing for us what Taylor does for Geelong, Rance does for Nthmond or Gibson did for the Dawks. He should be our main 3rd man up intercept marking player, it's clearly his strength and we've failed to have a structure that allows him to play his game. They don't really play on anybody because their job is to get to as many marking contests as possible and make the extra numbers. I'm pegging he's a certainty if fit to be selected for that very reason, even if he hadn't lead the intercept marking before we tried to make him a forward.

I'm also expecting him to be one of the better ball users from the back half, he's got the skills he just needs the experience to make the majority of his decisions the correct one.

A lot of posters talk about him losing confidence, that is based on hesitations and poor apparent disposal, but a lot of that comes from the players around him and up the ground not doing what they should be doing. It's no different to that Daisy chip-and-run last weekend, which was a result of no KPF leading up the wing at the ball carrier. The problem wasn't Daisy, it was further up the field.

Marchbank plays the intercept marking player as does OShea if and when he gets a game, we need true KP players to take the gorilla's...we have Jones, but then look to ACOS and Rowe when fit....
Weitering was recruited to play true KP IMO and to take the likes of Kennedy, Dixon, Lynch, Buddy, Hawkins etc but we now know they are probably not his ideal opponents and he doesnt enjoy the physical push and shove stuff and prefers the intercept role...
We cant have everyone wanting the easy role down back, some have to play proper defense and man up their opponent...

[kruddler]

Marchbank plays the intercept marking player as does OShea if and when he gets a game, we need true KP players to take the gorilla's...we have Jones, but then look to ACOS and Rowe when fit....
Weitering was recruited to play true KP IMO and to take the likes of Kennedy, Dixon, Lynch, Buddy, Hawkins etc but we now know they are probably not his ideal opponents and he doesnt enjoy the physical push and shove stuff and prefers the intercept role...
We cant have everyone wanting the easy role down back, some have to play proper defense and man up their opponent...

Exactly EB.

Jones will likely take them as Weiters is not suited to them.
...and as you say, Marchbank plays a similar zone off role, and offers the ability to play on smaller/quicker players if need be. Ditto Plowman, albeit a smaller version of both.

@LP..
In regards to playing a zone defense, that is fine, but the opposition won't allow it 100% of the time.
Eventually players will have to find a man, and i'd expect Richmond to exploit someone like Weiters on the lead and/or with double/triple leads.

Put simply.
Weiters has not thus far been able to mind the gorillas.
Weiters has not been able to play on the small agile types.
Weiters might not have a suitable opponent to play on.
The blokes we already have in our side, are capable of doing the same things that Weiters excels at - Reading the play, zoning off and using the ball well.

I expect him to get games....most likely more than half the games for the year.
However, if we pick a side to match the opposition, i suspect of the 4, he'd be the one most likely to be left out.

[flyboy77]

The bloke is just 20 ffs.

Has he even stopped growing? I reckon he's a tad taller and quite a few kg heavier than our public stats suggest....

At 195cm+ and 95kg+ clearly in the size bracket suitable of taking most KPP forwards....

Lot of people saying he can and can't do this or that or he won't be able to do this or that...

My reckoning? The guy will become AA in 2019 (if not before) and stay in that bracket for a darn long time....

Rowe and ASOS both north of 30 i think, Jones 27 odd.

There's a spot for Jacob every day of the week....